Tropical palm trees (and other tropical plants) in 44°N (Italy)

Saturday at 03:40 PM

Hello everyone, I wanted to show you palm trees and tropical plants in 44°N in Italy. The palm trees in photos are growing in a zone very mild for his latitude, thanks to the mountains and the sea.

(part 1)

Chamaedorea elegans ( one is variegated). This are growing in my yard

This are in a park

Musella lasiocarpa

Dypsis lutescens

Chambeyronia macrocarpa

Coccothrinax argentata (I think)

Dypsis decaryi

Sabal bermudana

Archontophoenix alexandrae

Ptychosperma elegans

Monstera deliciosa

Alocasia macrorrhizos (my yard)

Musa dwarf cavendish

Cordyline fruticosa (my yard)

Caryota mitis (I think)

Archontophoenix cunninghamiana

Acoelorrhaphe wrightii

Phoenix rupicola

Sabal palmetto ( I think)

Arenga engleri

Ficus (I don't remember the name😅) From the photo it doesn't look like it but it's huge

Phoenix roebelenii

Saturday at 04:20 PM

Holy shit. This is as far north as the Michigan thumb on Saginaw Bay.

Absolutely surreal to me.

Saturday at 04:24 PM

Wow, a zone pushing garden for sure! Nice to see that they can survive that far north. It shows that there are other influences than just latitude. The Chrysalidiocarpus Decaryi looks much different that they do in my garden but they are alive.Harry

Saturday at 04:32 PM

5 minutes ago, Harry’s Palms said:

Wow, a zone pushing garden for sure! Nice to see that they can survive that far north. It shows that there are other influences than just latitude. The Chrysalidiocarpus Decaryi looks much different that they do in my garden but they are alive.Harry

Yes, dypsis decaryi are a bit ugly because they were just planted and come from Florida. I think they are like that because they had a shock. I hope that in a few years they will be more beautiful

Saturday at 04:38 PM

17 minutes ago, ahosey01 said:

Holy shit. This is as far north as the Michigan thumb on Saginaw Bay.

Absolutely surreal to me.

😂😂 I know, it's far north, but with many mountains behind it and the warm sea for the Gulf Stream it helps a lot

Saturday at 04:46 PM

13 minutes ago, Palm_freak said:

Yes, dypsis decaryi are a bit ugly because they were just planted and come from Florida. I think they are like that because they had a shock. I hope that in a few years they will be more beautiful

They should acclimate well. I didn’t know that they are still hardening off , that makes sense. Harry

Saturday at 06:13 PM

molto bella!

Beautiful trees all around. I love the rupicola especially.

Saturday at 06:17 PM

3 minutes ago, TropicsEnjoyer said:

molto bella!

Beautiful trees all around. I love the rupicola especially.

Yes, phoenix rupicola is awesome!

Saturday at 06:41 PM

Wow! Where is this? I'm on 43N and can only dream about collection like that.

Saturday at 07:04 PM

21 minutes ago, dalmatiansoap said:

Wow! Where is this? I'm on 43N and can only dream about collection like that.

On the Italian Riviera

Saturday at 08:07 PM

1 hour ago, dalmatiansoap said:

Wow! Where is this? I'm on 43N and can only dream about collection like that.

Italian Riviera is protected to the North by the Alps massive, which makes local climate moister and milder both during summer and winter. It is nearly impossible for me to grow several of above plants in my own garden but I can grow Bismarckia and Roystonea, which rot readily in Riviera according to reports of local growers. A solid evidence that USDA zones are not reliable for the selection of plant spp to be tried in a certain area.

Saturday at 08:15 PM

7 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

Italian Riviera is protected to the North by the Alps massive, which makes local climate moister and milder both during summer and winter. It is nearly impossible for me to grow several of above plants in my own garden but I can grow Bismarckia and Roystonea, which rot readily in Riviera according to reports of local growers. A solid evidence that USDA zones are not reliable for the selection of plant spp to be tried in a certain area.

Bismarckia can survive here, I have a photo of it, I will post it tomorrow maybe

Sunday at 06:41 AM

10 hours ago, Palm_freak said:

Bismarckia can survive here, I have a photo of it, I will post it tomorrow maybe

That would be most interesting and pictures are highly anticipated. I would also like to know age and time spent by the plant in the same spot.

Sunday at 07:47 AM

Hello,
I think Sanremo, I recognized some glimpses of Villa Ormond, which I visited many years ago. The Italian Riviera has enormous untapped potential, with a careful choice of species. Some palms are very recently planted, as you wrote, and very suffering, we will have to see their behavior after the first winters. I hope I am wrong, but in my experience I see the survival of Ptycosperma as difficult. Update us on further developments.

Sunday at 08:49 AM

58 minutes ago, pietropuccio said:

Hello,
I think Sanremo, I recognized some glimpses of Villa Ormond, which I visited many years ago. The Italian Riviera has enormous untapped potential, with a careful choice of species. Some palms are very recently planted, as you wrote, and very suffering, we will have to see their behavior after the first winters. I hope I am wrong, but in my experience I see the survival of Ptycosperma as difficult. Update us on further developments.

Pietro, I suppose that many of the oceanic palms like Kentia, Rhopalostylis, Chambeyronia, Kentiopsis would thrive there. I expect in the future also a greater variety of Chysalidocarpus and Dypsis and Ravenea spp to be tested in the region during the following years.

Sunday at 09:14 AM

2 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

That would be most interesting and pictures are highly anticipated. I would also like to know age and time spent by the plant in the same spot.

Unfortunately I don't know the age and how long they have been in the ground, I can guess. I know that Bismarckia has been around for a few years, like 8-9 years

Sunday at 09:21 AM

1 hour ago, pietropuccio said:

Hello,
I think Sanremo, I recognized some glimpses of Villa Ormond, which I visited many years ago. The Italian Riviera has enormous untapped potential, with a careful choice of species. Some palms are very recently planted, as you wrote, and very suffering, we will have to see their behavior after the first winters. I hope I am wrong, but in my experience I see the survival of Ptycosperma as difficult. Update us on further developments.

Yes, some photos I had taken them in Sanremo, very mild there and many species of palm trees, other photos I took in Genoa (Parchi di Nervi), here they put like 2 years ago a lot of Dypsis decaryi, Ptychosperma elegans, Howea forsteriana (this one grows well here), Caryota, Dypsis lutescens, two Archontophoenix alexandrae and a Coccothrinax argentata. I will update you about these palms. Anyway yes, the ptychosperma is very difficult to grow well, for now it has passed 2 years, there were 2/3 of these, only one survived

Sunday at 09:28 AM

I saw on Instagram that there is a giant and healthy Ravanea rivularis in south France. I don't know if I can post a photo of it here, because it's not mine. Is located in Domaine du Rayol, The mediterranean Gardens

Sunday at 11:51 AM

18 hours ago, Palm_freak said:

😂😂 I know, it's far north, but with many mountains behind it and the warm sea for the Gulf Stream it helps a lot

Congratulations for those palms!

In my opinion, the Italian and the French Riviera are the best and farthest places from the equator in the world for growing sub and tropical palms.

UK and Ireland (52⁰N and farther) would be the best for subtropical palms, and Norway (60⁰N and farther) for cold palmtrees.

You are sheltered from the east, north and west cold winds, and close to a warm sea. The same with Sochi (43⁰N) and southern Spain (37⁰N)

Most surely, if you keep on lurking private gardens too, you'll find more oddities out there.

15 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

Italian Riviera is protected to the North by the Alps massive, which makes local climate moister and milder both during summer and winter. It is nearly impossible for me to grow several of above plants in my own garden but I can grow Bismarckia and Roystonea, which rot readily in Riviera according to reports of local growers. A solid evidence that USDA zones are not reliable for the selection of plant spp to be tried in a certain area.

We are not sheltered by any high mountain ranges from the north. We have them in the wrong place: the south. And we are in a far rainier place ,(1.200 lts of rain a year, being July the driest with 54 litres) and much less sunny (1.800 sunshine hours a year) than Genoa, but I can grow Bismarckia and Ravenea R.

This first Bismarckia has been in the ground for 12 years. Now it is almost 2 mts tall. It was trasplanted to a different garden 3 years ago. It almost stopped growing for a whole year: only 1 or 2 leaves that year, but 6 last year and 5 this one. It is growing in sandy soil. I only shelter it from hail, with that plastic net.

These other 7 Bismarckias were planted 3 years ago. They are in a very clayish soil, standing in water right now .

This Ravenea , the same as the first Bismarckia, was planted 12 years ago and trasplanted 3 years ago. It also suffered for a whole year, but now it is growing happily again due to our rainy climate. It has over a mt. of clear trunk. It suffers from cold winds in winter.

There used to be a Roystonea growing in Vigo (42⁰N) for several years. I don't know if it's still there.

Sunday at 12:59 PM

1 hour ago, gurugu said:

Congratulations for those palms!

In my opinion, the Italian and the French Riviera are the best and farthest places from the equator in the world for growing sub and tropical palms.

UK and Ireland (52⁰N and farther) would be the best for subtropical palms, and Norway (60⁰N and farther) for cold palmtrees.

You are sheltered from the east, north and west cold winds, and close to a warm sea. The same with Sochi (43⁰N) and southern Spain (37⁰N)

Most surely, if you keep on lurking private gardens too, you'll find more oddities out there.

We are not sheltered by any high mountain ranges from the north. We have them in the wrong place: the south. And we are in a far rainier place ,(1.200 lts of rain a year, being July the driest with 54 litres) and much less sunny (1.800 sunshine hours a year) than Genoa, but I can grow Bismarckia and Ravenea R.

This first Bismarckia has been in the ground for 12 years. Now it is almost 2 mts tall. It was trasplanted to a different garden 3 years ago. It almost stopped growing for a whole year: only 1 or 2 leaves that year, but 6 last year and 5 this one. It is growing in sandy soil. I only shelter it from hail, with that plastic net.

These other 7 Bismarckias were planted 3 years ago. They are in a very clayish soil, standing in water right now .

This Ravenea , the same as the first Bismarckia, was planted 12 years ago and trasplanted 3 years ago. It also suffered for a whole year, but now it is growing happily again due to our rainy climate. It has over a mt. of clear trunk. It suffers from cold winds in winter.

There used to be a Roystonea growing in Vigo (42⁰N) for several years. I don't know if it's still there.

Overhead protection with plastic not touching plant makes an enormous difference.I have never protected my Bismarckia, even in its youngest age) and Royal only once for a couple of days.

Sunday at 01:20 PM

Other plants at 44°N (Most of the photos were taken in Sanremo, some in Genoa or surroundings)

(part 2)

Bismarckia nobilis (Genoa)

Dracaena marginata (my garden)

Livistona australis

(Genoa)

Rhapis excelsa

A sabal but I don't know the name

Howea forsteriana (there are forest of this! )

A dracaena

Brahea armata

Phoenix robellini

Allagoptera arenaria

Monstera deliciosa

Phoenix reclinata

Trithrinax campestris

Sabal (I don't know this either, maybe minor? )

Archontophoenix cunninghamiana

Livistona decora

This is also livistona australis?

Sunday at 01:29 PM

15 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

Overhead protection with plastic not touching plant makes an enormous difference.I have never protected my Bismarckia, even in its youngest age) and Royal only once for a couple of days.

I only protected it (at first) with plastic stapled to wooden strips nailed into the ground and then wrapped with the windbreaker plastic net shown in the picture. Just for high winds protection matters. This is a very windy spot. Never touching the leaves, as you mention.

Now I just nail that net above the palm, with no plastic at all.

I didn't expect it to like winter rain that much. For the same reason, I don't understand why the smaller palms in the second picture, withstand standing water without any issue. I thought Bismarckias were more finicky, water wise.

In fact, those smaller Bismarckias in the second picture, have never been protected with plastic either.

Raveneas do like tons of water year round.

Remember that I am only one degree less to the south (43⁰ 30' N) than Genoa (44⁰ 28' N). And the climate here is warm temperate . Maybe subtropical in terms of minimum temperatures year round (not maximum ones , which are too mild, not hot) and very humid.

Sunday at 02:01 PM

I guess city heat island also plays a role, with Genoa being a big city?

And damn, I am jealous!

Sunday at 02:14 PM

3 minutes ago, Than said:

Immagino che anche l'isola di calore della città giochi un ruolo, visto che Genova è una grande città?

E accidenti, quanto sono invidiosa!

Genoa it can be very polluted sometimes, instead other times is not thanks to the sea. The areas where palm trees are located do not seem to me to be so polluted, there are certain areas of Genoa that are more polluted than others. Genoa I would say that it is a medium-sized city

Sunday at 04:13 PM

7 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

Pietro, I suppose that many of the oceanic palms like Kentia, Rhopalostylis, Chambeyronia, Kentiopsis would thrive there. I expect in the future also a greater variety of Chysalidocarpus and Dypsis and Ravenea spp to be tested in the region during the following years.

I totally agree, there is still a lot to experiment in the Mediterranean area.

Monday at 06:57 AM

Impressive! It is a lovely area around there. I'm surprised that Ptycosperma survived at all, I've never heard of it even in northern New Zealand. I was considering trying bismarckia, and if they grow for gurugu and around Genova then I reckon it's worth a try for me!