Livistona Carinensis

[Gtlevine]

I just received a seedling as a gift from a friend of mine. The palm is Livistona Carinensis, a very rare palm from the Arabian Peninsula and Somalia. I looked at some photos and it is a stunning blue/silver Livistona with black petioles. It also has leaf bases that don't cling to tightly and drop off to reveal nice leaf scars. The literature also says it is very frost tolerant and drought tolerant. Why I never was aware of this palm is beyond me, a palm this beautiful that is made for So Cal hell. My goal is to go "Bo-Goran", and plant a grove of them, if I can find more of them.

My request to all you experts or anyone familiar with this palm is to let me know what experiences you have with it, and to post your photos.

Gary

[SubTropicRay]

Good luck with that one Gary.  It's one of the harder Livistona to grow in humid Florida.  Not impossible but definitely not what I'd call carefree.

[BS Man about Palms]

Gary, did you hear the pin drop?

[bgl]

Gary,

I feel honored!

I think L. carinensis was recently described, but I'm not sure if this means it's just recently been introduced into cultivation? Or, if it's been grown as Livistona sp. for a while?

I know one thing - it was a very easy and quick germinator, and here's a shot of my little bunch. I just watered them, in case you wonder about the water on the seedlings.

Bo-Göran

[merrill]

L. carinensis As a young plant didn't survive the high humidity in North Florida for me.

[MattyB]

Hmmmmm, sounds interesting.  Pics, pics, we want pics.

Oh, there on Dave's garden.  Palmbob and Christian posted some pics there.

[Gtlevine]

Beautiful picture Bo, your future grove in the making. I am not sure how they will like Hawaii weather, my understanding is they hate humidity as the Florida folks testified. I think this one will be good for me in inland So Cal, hot and dry.

Gary

[bgl]

Well, if Dypsis decipiens can thrive here, why not L. carinensis!?

[Gtlevine]

(merrill @ Nov. 28 2007,22:43)

QUOTE

L. carinensis As a young plant didn't survive the high humidity in North Florida for me.

Hi Merril, the literature backs up your experience, this palm hates humidity and needs a very dry climate.

On a side note, I need to get a picture of the xButyagrus you sent me, it is gorgeous and really growing now. It is my only xButyagrus with black petioles.

Gary

[merrill]

Hi, Gary:

I don’t remember a Butyagrus w/ black petioles.  Did I give an accession number of some sort or

other  pertinent info?  Does the black rub off?  Glad it is growing well!

Hi, Bo-Goran:

If I’d had the right conditions, that L. carinensis would be a sky duster now.  It came to me long

ago when it was first published in Principes.

Best Wishes,

merrill

[LJG]

(Gtlevine @ Nov. 28 2007,20:15)

QUOTE

Hi Merril, the literature backs up your experience, this palm hates humidity and needs a very dry climate.

There are nice ones in Thailand and the Audubon Center in Hawaii from pictures I found online. Those are humid areas. Also, I would assume Somalia can be hot and humid like Kenya is.

Hey Gary, how fast after you posted this did it take for your phone to ring and it be Bill?   :laugh:

[BS Man about Palms]

(LJG @ Nov. 28 2007,21:42)

QUOTE

(Gtlevine @ Nov. 28 2007,20:15)

QUOTE

Hi Merril, the literature backs up your experience, this palm hates humidity and needs a very dry climate.

There are nice ones in Thailand and the Audubon Center in Hawaii from pictures I found online. Those are humid areas. Also, I would assume Somalia can be hot and humid like Kenya is.

Hey Gary, how fast after you posted this did it take for your phone to ring and it be Bill?   :laugh:

It works both ways Len. I don't think the friend that gave it to him had left his driveway before he was calling me to tell me about it...  :laugh:

[SubTropicRay]

The Audubon Center in Hawaii is humid but may not get as hot for as long as it does in Florida.  There are Hedyscepe in Hawaii too but not here.  

Bo, I thought the D. decipiens at Hoomaluhia were slowly dying?

[Eric in Orlando]

I have tried 2 small, 2ft specimens at Leu Gardens but they both died. They never had a problem with humidity, I planted them in too dry of an area. I thought since it was a desert palm they would like it dry. The area has very poor, loose sand and no irrigation. In the wild they grow where there is underground water so their roots are usually irrigated. CFPACS recently had seed of this available. I have several germinating. Next time they will get irrigation.

There are a couple nice, healthy specimens at Fairchild. It doesn't get much more humid than Miami;

[Palmarum]

The one specimen Fairchild has of Livistona carinensis in their lowlands has slowly gained size in the past year or so. I could not get a decent shot of the entire palm, so here are the petioles and leaf bases, which are both quite attractive in my opinion. The species could still be classified as very rare in South Florida, but it will still show up at most of the sales as 1 and 3 gallon sized plants. Occasionally, you might even find a robust 7 or 10 gallon for sale. Unless the customer is a particular collector of the genus, most do not give the palm a second glance. Small plants resemble L. chinensis from a distance and when people quickly read the tag, they mistake the spelling for 'chinensis' and move on. As for growth, they do well in containers, as long as good drainage is provided. I have seen only a few in the ground. They were healthy, but growing slowly.

Ryan

[bgl]

Ray,

I don't believe it's been established yet why Ho'omaluhia lost some of their Dypsis decipiens. And as far as I know, most of those palms are still there and doing OK. My personal theory is that the ones that died, or are dying, were planted in an area with poor drainage. We get much more rain here than Ho'omaluhia, and humidity is presumably more or less the same, and I havn't had a single problem. In one area I have a group of 25 D. decipiens and they are all thriving. I've come to believe that with excellent drainage, which we have here, they will do just fine.

Bo-Göran

[Jeff Searle]

I planted one(7gal.) earlier this year,at the house. So far it's growing fine, but yet still too earlier to know if it will thrive or not. When I grew these at the nursery, they got watered everyday, whether they needed it or not. And they did very well. I will try to get a picture of mine soon.

Jeff

[mike in kurtistown]

Here is a pic taken during the 2004 biennial of the palm labeled Livistona carinensis at the Waimea Audubon Center. Waimea is on the west side of Oahu, so maybe it is a shade drier (though it poured when we were there).

[Gtlevine]

Nice photos, very beautiful palm and I am glad I am finally on board with this species. Glad to hear that they are growing in Florida and Hawaii, from what I read I thought it would be difficult in humidity. It seems that this palm is good for just about everybody, it should be grown much more often.

Gary

[Gaston in Argentina]

My book is about they come from the desert of the Afrika`s "horn"

where is endangered.-

Look like a perfect palm for the friends in Arizona!

[Morabeza]

(bgl @ Nov. 29 2007,07:10)

QUOTE

Ray,

I don't believe it's been established yet why Ho'omaluhia lost some of their Dypsis decipiens. And as far as I know, most of those palms are still there and doing OK. My personal theory is that the ones that died, or are dying, were planted in an area with poor drainage. We get much more rain here than Ho'omaluhia, and humidity is presumably more or less the same, and I havn't had a single problem. In one area I have a group of 25 D. decipiens and they are all thriving. I've come to believe that with excellent drainage, which we have here, they will do just fine.

Bo-Göran

I thought I'd chime in.

The decline in the D. decipiens at the Ho`omaluhia BG may be attributed to the relentless 43 days straight of downpours during the spring of 2006 in which many growers experienced significant losses on the windward side.  These included everyone from Poinsettia growers, cut flower growers (especially Alpinia purpurata) vegetable farmers, and many orchid growers who grow their stuff in bark.  Specimen orchids grown in almost pure diatomite chunks rotted from the centre.  These are all from first hand accounts from friends out there.  (also for those who didn't know, at the same time.....Dams on Kaua`i broke, and Honolulu's Ala Wai canal not only overflowed its banks but untold masses of raw sewage were released into it and Waikiki beaches were shut down for a while)

The placement of the D. decipiens at the Ho`omaluhia appears to be one where they get some unwelcome encroaching shade, grouped perhaps a bit too close together, and definitely in a place where water would settle especially during the massive amount of precipitation that would have flooded many spots.

About humidity on O`ahu, never underestimate our variety of microclimates!  I had no idea the neighbourhood I settled into would be so arid.  My humidity averages during  summer days at 40-50%.  I have many dead orchids to prove this (and thermometers )

Koko Crater Botanic Garden has one Livistonia canariensis but a Sabal seedling sprouted near it and I am currently petitioning the folks there to weed it (chainsaw it) out because it is now larger than the Livistonia which only has a few feet of trunk (but is fruiting).  It is as arid in that crater as it is in my neighbourhood, and that garden has a 20-30' Brahea armata.

As for the Waimea Arboretum, I haven't seen the Livistonia there, but if it's doing well I imagine it's planted on a slope near the opening of the valley where many of their palms are.  They might have slightly higher humidity and rainfall at that section of the valley than does Koko Crater BG.

[Geoff]

this is slug in California and a notoriously difficult palm to grow here.  I have seen some seedlings struggling along at the Huntington (though they are about the size where they should be over the main worries).. and Ralph Velez has one with about 7' of trunk... but it's gotta be about 35 years old by now!

[Kris]

Dear Friends  

what variety is this..it's growing in our garden and when will it seed any ideas..?

thanks & love,

Kris  

[Brian Bruning]

I'd like to get three of these for a garden in Palm Springs CA. Does anyone have seedlings, gallons or whatever?

[Josh-O]

Brian, you should post all your requests in the wanted forum. This might get you better results