Polar Vortex Jan 2025 - Are you preparing your palms?

January 21

47 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

If we head into the ice age IKEA offers some great ever green palms . I bought one a while ago lol. Cold hardy down to zone 1.

Yuppia swedensis

January 21

1 hour ago, Xenon said:

It's a joke Marcus, you can't get any lower than 1899. They say it was like a one in thousand year freeze where even the tropics froze and North Florida recorded temps below zero fahrenheit. Can only get warmer from rock bottom 1899 unless we really are headed into the Ice Age 😆

Also in the 1890s :

In the Northern Hemisphere, the furthest south, at Sea Level, that has even seen snow accumulation was at Tampico MX in February 1895. That same storm put down 6 to 20 inches of snow along the GoM coast from Texas to Louisiana.

-Matt

January 21

1 hour ago, idontknowhatnametuse said:

No snow here in northern Mexico. Only rain. Min temp was -2⁰C (28F)

That's interesting are you guys typically colder than us?

January 21

14 minutes ago, Meangreen94z said:

One of my Brahea armata in Lago Vista

What is that plant on the center right of that pic ?

-Matt

January 21

Update at 1:00PM for posterity... we never actually hit 32F. Weather station only ever showed 33F, despite having a very fine sheet of ice on the top of the pole it is attached to. Was watching Weather Underground on and off all morning, and there were only two other stations I saw that never hit 32F - one in Los Fresnos and the other in Laguna Vista. So technically no freeze yet so far this year.

January 21

I thought I was planted for my zone……

January 21

4 hours ago, Xenon said:

Brrrr it's cold

My Norwegian Forest Cat hates cold, too. Go figure

Lizzie says, "Bring back spring."

January 21

24 minutes ago, JeskiM said:

What is that plant on the center right of that pic ?

-Matt

Its a Puya , either harmsii or castellanosii. I got them from Cactus King in Houston years ago. They’ve survived low teens under a tarp.

January 21

On 1/20/2025 at 1:12 PM, NMPalmjunky said:

@Muslim Gardener Most of central New Mexico ranges from 6b to 8a. My area is officially 7b, but it’s closer to 8a over the last decade. There are thousands of tall “yucca palms” everywhere and a growing number of Washingtonias and windmills. I have also had good success with Chamaerops and Butia. Check out some of the Albuquerque threads to see several massive palms that survived -10F in 2011. The dryness and the solar radiation probably give us a full zone increase on desert plants compared to a similar zone on the East coast.

That's so cool to hear. I wonder if palms grow in Sedona, AZ

January 21

5 minutes ago, Muslim Gardener said:

That's so cool to hear. I wonder if palms grow in Sedona, AZ

Yeah there are quite a few washingtonias up there. Have also seen trachycarpus and a sabal if I remember correctly. Mostly Washingtonia filifera. They're native to an area like 60-70 miles southwest from there.

January 21

I've been told the Houston snow is melting. Melt Melt Melt go away snow

Let it be 23-25F tomorrow morning, not the teens!!!

January 21

58 minutes ago, ahosey01 said:

That's interesting are you guys typically colder than us?

Sometimes. Monterrey is located between a mountain range so in some occasions it gets colder.

January 21

14 minutes ago, Xenon said:

I've been told the Houston snow is melting. Melt Melt Melt go away snow

Let it be 23-25F tomorrow morning, not the teens!!!

Additionally, sublimation should also help to reduce the snowpack. And since sublimation converts the solid snow directly to water vapor, that should moisten the air (higher dewpoints to prevent temps from tanking).

January 21

Since Jonathan provided some old data from the past I'm curious about the existence about palm trees in the regions along the Gulf of America (? , eh what lol) and states that are connected to those gulf states, 100 plus years ago. What type of palms could be grown( if any) ? I would assume that it all started at the coastal areas, then palms were moved further inland . Any history about it ? I understand that a lot of palms that we see in palmy regions where brought in from other states or even countries. I also assume that Sabal palms were the only one species growing before 19th century along the Gulf Coast. Just an assumption. Any data about that ?

January 21

48 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

My Norwegian Forest Cat hates cold, too. Go figure

Lizzie says, "Bring back spring."

Looks so cozy on the couch hehe.

January 21

On 1/18/2025 at 10:55 PM, MarcusH said:

What did I get myself into ? I grew up with cold winters that get down to around 0°F almost every winter. I should be laughing at you all . If it wouldn't be for my hobby I would not care at all. Man, these winters in Texas are BULLSHIT . Worst place to grow some cool palms. What's next winter going to be like? Every year the reset button gets pushed.

I seriously don't get why people from Houston to beyond Pensacola, at latitude 30, bother growing anything beyond 8a palms. The southeast US outside of the FL peninsula and the very bottom of TX is just not suitable unless every few years you want dead palms and crown collapse. When foreigners go to NOLA for the superbowl it will look awful with nothing but dead and dying palms everywhere. The North American climate is laughable. People way up at 45 latitude in Europe never go thru this crap and here it is every few winters.

January 21

We got down to a dry 22° up here but a 2nd cold reinforcing shot has kept it at or below freezing even with full sunny skies! 🥶

I suppose my naked palms will gain some warmth from sunshine? Luckily not too cold overnight-mid 20s but milder rest of week (month too, as it goes now).

This is depths of Winter, cold enuf i say. Hope not too much damage for everyone concerned tonight as much colder then here in H town!

Much more tender species and imagine the Florida panhandle! Whacky❄️🌴❄️Galveston was a winter wonderland too, crazy times.

January 21

Currently 35F and sunny. The snow is melting and the roads and all concrete is clear.

January 21

3 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

Since Jonathan provided some old data from the past I'm curious about the existence about palm trees in the regions along the Gulf of America (? , eh what lol) and states that are connected to those gulf states, 100 plus years ago. What type of palms could be grown( if any) ? I would assume that it all started at the coastal areas, then palms were moved further inland . Any history about it ? I understand that a lot of palms that we see in palmy regions where brought in from other states or even countries. I also assume that Sabal palms were the only one species growing before 19th century along the Gulf Coast. Just an assumption. Any data about that ?

sabals and some evergreen oaks and that is about it. I read the book by Bartram about his travels in the southern US in the late 1700's. the climate has never been suitable for 9a or even 8b palms. 9a in Spain, France and Italy is 9a period. In the southern US Savannah GA was 7b for five years in the 80's.

January 21

4 hours ago, Chester B said:

I went down to 27F and it’s slowly warming up. I’ve gotten 2.5” so far, I measured the snow on an outdoor table. Palm fronds are all weighed down. It’s heavy wet packing snow. Did I mention I hate this crap??

Houston is 9b but sometimes it goes to 8a which is very bad for subtropical plants.

January 21

1 hour ago, Tropicdoc said:

I thought I was planted for my zone……

NWS for Houma has you going down to 15F tonight. Almost 8a.

January 21

1 hour ago, JeskiM said:

Also in the 1890s :

In the Northern Hemisphere, the furthest south, at Sea Level, that has even seen snow accumulation was at Tampico MX in February 1895. That same storm put down 6 to 20 inches of snow along the GoM coast from Texas to Louisiana.

-Matt

during the last ice age glaciers went further south in North America than anywhere else on the planet. got a bad deal in NA for such low latitude climates.

January 21

5 minutes ago, mthteh1916 said:

sabals and some evergreen oaks and that is about it. I read the book by Bartram about his travels in the southern US in the late 1700's. the climate has never been suitable for 9a or even 8b palms. 9a in Spain, France and Italy is 9a period. In the southern US Savannah GA was 7b for five years in the 80's.

That's what I was assuming because it looks like Sabal Palms are the only most reliable palm that can handle single digits or less briefly and isn't really picky about soil types. Thanks for your input.

January 21

15 hours ago, Xenon said:

Drove through I-10/I-12 in Louisiana this afternoon and some of the Washies from Lake Charles to Baton Rouge are already a funny slightly orange color. I think Beaumont to Baton Rouge are going to get nailed by the snow, 6 inches (more?). Temps possible low teens or upper single digits according to some forecasts

what palms can survive that?

January 21

2 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

That's what I was assuming because it looks like Sabal Palms are the only most reliable palm that can handle single digits or less briefly and isn't really picky about soil types. Thanks for your input.

I'm much older than you. I was in the SE and Biloxi and Mobile and Savannah in the early 90's and late 80's. You rarely saw a cidp unless you were right on the coast. never saw washies anywhere. live oaks and sabals was it. Heck NOLA went down to 12F and three ice days in a row in the 80's.

January 21

7 minutes ago, mthteh1916 said:

Houston is 9b but sometimes it goes to 8a which is very bad for subtropical plants.

Palms don't care about average temperatures it's the ultimate low and of course type of cold, duration etc they care about. 9b is just a number that was recently replaced with 9a. Don't get fooled by that. It's not a solid 9b. It's like you buy a specific type of car and you are like wow 300 hp , you get all excited but on the dyno it only produces 265 hp lol.

January 21

1 minute ago, mthteh1916 said:

I'm much older than you. I was in the SE and Biloxi and Mobile and Savannah in the early 90's and late 80's. You rarely saw a cidp unless you were right on the coast. never saw washies anywhere. live oaks and sabals was it. Heck NOLA went down to 12F and three ice days in a row in the 80's.

So when was the push for starting planting palm trees that far inland let's say Texas where you see Sabal Mexicana planted as far as Dallas and beyond ?

January 21

23 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

Since Jonathan provided some old data from the past I'm curious about the existence about palm trees in the regions along the Gulf of America (? , eh what lol) and states that are connected to those gulf states, 100 plus years ago. What type of palms could be grown( if any) ? I would assume that it all started at the coastal areas, then palms were moved further inland . Any history about it ? I understand that a lot of palms that we see in palmy regions where brought in from other states or even countries. I also assume that Sabal palms were the only one species growing before 19th century along the Gulf Coast. Just an assumption. Any data about that ?

I think the Spanish missions were growing Phoenix species in south Texas since the 1700s.

January 21

10 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

So when was the push for starting planting palm trees that far inland let's say Texas where you see Sabal Mexicana planted as far as Dallas and beyond ?

the late 90's when winter lows started creeping up. but the last few years is starting to feel like the 80's again to me. If Mobile goes to 11F tonight that will be the coldest temps there since the 80's. will kill many many 9a/8b palms. I'm not sure why people bother cause it is very expensive to remove large dead palms.

January 21

11 minutes ago, ahosey01 said:

I think the Spanish missions were growing Phoenix species in south Texas since the 1700s.

you realize that in the 80's they lost many citrus trees in the rio grande valley. but yes I said far south tx is suitable for palms. Houston I believe in the 80's went down to low 8a.

January 21

It's not looking good for Baton Rouge...the NWS forecast has BR at 11F tomorrow morning.

I passed by and admired these Washingtonia robusta just a few weeks ago. I'm thinking they are toast along with the prominent Washingtonia plantings near the I-10/I-12 interchange. Hammond, Lafayatte, and Lake Charles are all doomed according to the forecast too. This is likely going to be a palm killer for LA's I-10/I-12 corridor. This is going to kill the queens I saw hanging on by a thread on the North Shore/Mandeville.

I currently live just over 50 miles north of Hammond in south MS and it's supposed to be a degree or two warmer here. Now I'll have nothing to look at traveling down I-55 to Hammond which I viewed as a soft gateway or transition to zone 9.

January 21

15 minutes ago, mthteh1916 said:

you realize that in the 80's they lost many citrus trees in the rio grande valley. but yes I said far south tx is suitable for palms. Houston I believe in the 80's went down to low 8a.

Yeah I think 83 and 89 were the worst but there were some surprising survivors there too... Attalea and things. There are date palms in Laredo and Carrizo Springs from the USDA's experimental station that was there in the early 1900s. Dry climate over there and high diurnal temperature variation = greater long term survivability because freezes are less protracted than in the east (i.e. Corpus Christi).

January 21

2 minutes ago, Xenon said:

It's not looking good for Baton Rouge...the NWS forecast has BR at 11F tomorrow morning.

I passed by and admired these Washingtonia robusta just a few weeks ago. I'm thinking they are toast along with the prominent Washingtonia plantings near the I-10/I-12 interchange. Hammond, Lafayatte, and Lake Charles are all doomed according to the forecast too. This is likely going to be a palm killer for LA's I-10/I-12 corridor. This is going to kill the queens I saw hanging on by a thread on the North Shore/Mandeville.

I currently live just over 50 miles north of Hammond in south MS and it's supposed to be a degree or two warmer here. Now I'll have nothing to look at traveling down I-55 to Hammond which I viewed as a soft gateway or transition to zone 9.

really sad. I heard this air crossed over from Siberia. Those are usually the worst cold outbreaks. damn shame loads of palms will be dead all along the alabama coast and panhandle of florida.

January 21

2 minutes ago, mthteh1916 said:

really sad. I heard this air crossed over from Siberia. Those are usually the worst cold outbreaks. damn shame loads of palms will be dead all along the alabama coast and panhandle of florida.

Things aren't looking awful for Pensacola the way they are for LA so far. 6" of snow sucks, but as far as temps go it looks like the model consensus is 20-21F overnight low which is consistent with 9A temps. Not a generational freeze there. Definitely a generational freeze in Louisiana, though.

January 21

13 minutes ago, mthteh1916 said:

really sad. I heard this air crossed over from Siberia. Those are usually the worst cold outbreaks. damn shame loads of palms will be dead all along the alabama coast and panhandle of florida.

This cold mass is not that cold. This is not one of those Siberian-express 80s type freezes. This is like a perfect alignment of decent cold and moisture to create a snowstorm. The nail in the coffin comes from the radiational freeze magnified by all of the accumulating snow.

Dallas is forecast to be warmer than Houston tonight, Shreveport warmer than Baton Ruoge, etc so the underlying cold mass is not that cold. It's the wretched snow.

January 21

forecast changed now our low dropped from 30 to 26 here downtown, and allegedly were going to get 6 inches of snow.....this is some BS

January 21

nws has NOLA not going up freezing until thursday. yikes. with an ultimate low of 20F tonight. 9b stuff there will be toast.

January 21

8 minutes ago, Xenon said:

This cold mass is not that cold. This is not one of those Siberian-express 80s type freezes. This is like a perfect alignment of decent cold and moisture to create a snowstorm. The nail in the coffin comes from the radiational freeze spurred by all of the accumulating snow.

Dallas is forecast to be warmer than Houston tonight, Shreveport warmer than Baton Ruoge, etc so the underlying cold mass is not that cold. It's the wretched snow.

yeah but I think if the NAO which is staying around -2 is the reason for the not as cold. when the NAO hits -4 or -5 that is when it gets severely cold in the SE. This is still very bad. there is no snow in the rio grand valley and the forecast is low to mid 20'sF down there. that is bad for grapefruits still on the trees. the coldest areas will be the rural areas.

January 21

15 minutes ago, Xenon said:

It's not looking good for Baton Rouge...the NWS forecast has BR at 11F tomorrow morning.

I passed by and admired these Washingtonia robusta just a few weeks ago. I'm thinking they are toast along with the prominent Washingtonia plantings near the I-10/I-12 interchange. Hammond, Lafayatte, and Lake Charles are all doomed according to the forecast too. This is likely going to be a palm killer for LA's I-10/I-12 corridor. This is going to kill the queens I saw hanging on by a thread on the North Shore/Mandeville.

I currently live just over 50 miles north of Hammond in south MS and it's supposed to be a degree or two warmer here. Now I'll have nothing to look at traveling down I-55 to Hammond which I viewed as a soft gateway or transition to zone 9.

Tonight should be the bottom...the forecast low is 11 - 13 F...for maybe 3 hrs. Should be back into the 50's F by the weekend.

one1a.jpg.c11dde25c944e43f51bdfd933978a12a.jpg

I'm not sure what zone Houston is compared to north Florida...but driving up and down the Florida coast over the years, I have seen some of the north Florida Washingtonia get damaged once or twice a decade, and most seem to come back ok. In 2003, Jacksonville, FL went down to 19 F for a few hrs, and most of the Washingtonia's came back. So hopfully some will make it.

January 21

9 minutes ago, Robbertico18 said:

forecast changed now our low dropped from 30 to 26 here downtown, and allegedly were going to get 6 inches of snow.....this is some BS

these overrunning events, warm air running over cold surface air over produce snow in the SE. expect temps to go to lower 20s. Charleston airport now going down to 18F according to nws. low 20's for Beaufort. bad bad.

WELCOME GUEST

Polar Vortex Jan 2025 - Are you preparing your palms?

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