Polar Vortex Jan 2025 - Are you preparing your palms?

[AcerPALMatum]

I was wholly unprepared and left everything unprotected... I wonder if my Rhapis excelsa will pull through 17°F and covered in a few inches of snow. Barely getting above freezing today and not getting a high in the 50s until Sunday.

[MarcusH]

Sabal causiarum has some leaf damage from the freeze. The lows were 24.7 . Not as leaf hardy as I thought or is it because it's still a strap leaf ? Any causiarum grower please step forward and tell me your experiences on leaf hardiness and how fast they grow back?  

Robusta looks good. 

Filiferas and Butia didn’t seem to notice the cold. 

 Below pictures Sabal Causiarum and W.Robusta 

[Allen]

2 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

Sabal causiarum has some leaf damage from the freeze. The lows were 24.7 . Not as leaf hardy as I thought or is it because it's still a strap leaf ? Any causiarum grower please step forward and tell me your experiences on leaf hardiness and how fast they grow back?  

Robusta looks good. 

Filiferas and Butia didn’t seem to notice the cold. 

 Below pictures Sabal Causiarum and W.Robusta 

You won't know full extent for a week or so when temps are in 70's

[MarcusH]

Just now, Allen said:

You won't know full extent for a week or so when temps are in 70's

I know but from past years my Robusta went through 16 to 19f and this year so far it only got down to about 25f. I know my Filiferas won't show any signs of damage in a week or a month from my personal experiences.  I might experience more bronzing on my Robustas leafes but it's definitely not going to defoliate at that temperature or turn all brown. Not at 25f.  I don’t even grow a pure Robusta so mine is more cold hardy .

[Allen]

3 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

I know but from past years my Robusta went through 16 to 19f and this year so far it only got down to about 25f. I know my Filiferas won't show any signs of damage in a week or a month from my personal experiences.  I might experience more bronzing on my Robustas leafes but it's definitely not going to defoliate at that temperature or turn all brown. Not at 25f.  I don’t even grow a pure Robusta so mine is more cold hardy .

Did you have a sensor?  I'm showing some areas colder than that around you

[Xenon]

My causiarum leaves looked a little funny after a 17F freeze last year but it went away as it warmed up. In the end there was no/negligible damage. 

[mthteh1916]

3 hours ago, Subtropical LIS said:

At least the main event is now fully over.

Looking this morning at the NWS forecast for you're area, with full sunshine and warming temps each day things should get better quick. By Sunday the cold will really be a distant memory:

 

 

 

yeah but the damage will linger for very long. every cidp and washie is dead all along the gulf coast except New Orleans. how can a cidp take single digits? I think this will be very very ugly for years. It takes years to grow tall cidp and washies. they will all be dead dead. 

[Xenon]

4 minutes ago, mthteh1916 said:

yeah but the damage will linger for very long. every cidp and washie is dead all along the gulf coast except New Orleans. how can a cidp take single digits? I think this will be very very ugly for years. It takes years to grow tall cidp and washies. they will all be dead dead. 

No need to be doomsday dramatic tom77falcons. Many CIDP will live, they survived the single digit 80s freezes along the Gulf as well. The Washies are a toss up depending on how heavily robusta they lean. CIDP takes about a year to 15 months to regrow a decent crown. Washies are much faster if they decide to live. 

[mthteh1916]

3 hours ago, Xenon said:

New all time record lows in Lake Charles, Lafayette, and New Iberia. Lafayette broke the longstanding record low of 6F in 1899!!!!

Looks like nobody is immune to record setting cold even with warmer overall temps, increased urbanization, etc....hammer always looming 😱

so basically not a single washie or date palm left. forget queens and anything else except palmettos. Mobile had loads of washies and date palms. I assume every single one is dead. 

[mthteh1916]

3 minutes ago, Xenon said:

No need to be doomsday dramatic tom77falcons. Many CIDP will live, they survived the single digit 80s freezes along the Gulf as well. The Washies are a toss up depending on how heavily robusta they lean. CIDP takes about a year to 15 months to regrow a decent crown. Washies are much faster if they decide to live. 

I saw what happened after 14f in 2014. there were washie sticks everywhere. some cidp died as well. you think they can handle 11F. washingtonia can't take that. 

[mthteh1916]

5 minutes ago, Xenon said:

No need to be doomsday dramatic tom77falcons. Many CIDP will live, they survived the single digit 80s freezes along the Gulf as well. The Washies are a toss up depending on how heavily robusta they lean. CIDP takes about a year to 15 months to regrow a decent crown. Washies are much faster if they decide to live. 

well not exactly. the 80's killed many many palms on the gulf coast. I was there. this is worse than the low temps in the 80's. this is 1899 level cold. 

[mthteh1916]

3 hours ago, Xenon said:

New all time record lows in Lake Charles, Lafayette, and New Iberia. Lafayette broke the longstanding record low of 6F in 1899!!!!

Looks like nobody is immune to record setting cold even with warmer overall temps, increased urbanization, etc....hammer always looming 😱

that biloxi temp is right on the water across from a bay. the temp at gulfport airport 11 miles away got down to 7F. was below 10F for hours. Does snow insulate the palms from cold?  

[mthteh1916]

by the end of the 80's it was pretty hard to find feather palms except right hard on the coast. and there were only a few. was there many times. all you saw were sabal palmettos. New Orleans yes but many of them had damage on their trunks. 

[SailorBold]

15 hours ago, Tropicdoc said:

Got a foot of snow here after it’s all said and done. Low of 15 tonight. 3-4 more days of freezing temps. 
I’m trying not to cry over my 4 fruiting butia x parajubaea 

biggest question for me is do I replant native and give up or go for the tropicalesque thing again?

I feel for ya..  it will pass.  Just need to wait and see.. my advise is hell no..don't give up man.. these are outliers..

Got hit here too with cold.. prolly gonna defoliate everything..  just one storm did it...

[JeskiM]

For those of you from NOLA east through the panhandle; something to consider is this :

(1) the temps are comparable to what TX saw in 2021

(2) the amount of snow is comparable to what TX saw in 2021

But

(1) There was very little ice in this event. TX had ice, followed by snow, and then more ice

(2) The total duration, or consecutive hours below freezing will not be the same as what TX saw in 2021

(3) The 2021 event was in Mid-February where some plants may have been seeing more growth activity as early spring was about to hit.

(4) This cold snap came 1 week after a previous cold snap. Some plants may have "hardened up" a bit from the prior cold snap. The 2021 event came on the heels of a long period of normal to above normal temps.

I am not trying to lessen this storm in any way; it's still a historical and significant storm no matter how one cuts it.   I am simply pointing out some distinct differences that may have an impact on the extent of damage (I hope).

-Matt

[mthteh1916]

20 minutes ago, JeskiM said:

For those of you from NOLA east through the panhandle; something to consider is this :

(1) the temps are comparable to what TX saw in 2021

(2) the amount of snow is comparable to what TX saw in 2021

But

(1) There was very little ice in this event. TX had ice, followed by snow, and then more ice

(2) The total duration, or consecutive hours below freezing will not be the same as what TX saw in 2021

(3) The 2021 event was in Mid-February where some plants may have been seeing more growth activity as early spring was about to hit.

(4) This cold snap came 1 week after a previous cold snap. Some plants may have "hardened up" a bit from the prior cold snap. The 2021 event came on the heels of a long period of normal to above normal temps.

I am not trying to lessen this storm in any way; it's still a historical and significant storm no matter how one cuts it.   I am simply pointing out some distinct differences that may have an impact on the extent of damage (I hope).

-Matt

does duration of the extreme lowest temps help in any way. it seemed to drop really quickly right before dawn and then climb rapidly. does that help in any way that these extreme lows were short duration?

[PalmsNC]

I feel bad for the Gulf Coast, this cold blast would not have yielded such low temps if it had not been for that snowstorm. Much of Louisiana would have saw mid-upper teens at coldest. Snowstorms suck and are often times why we see extreme lows, the cold blast itself without the snow is fine... with it you drop like a rock.

[PalmSupreme]

All-time lowest temperatures in 2025, who had that on their cards? The Gulf of Mexico has been record hot in recent months. Records which stood for 130 years broken.  A palm destruction event for parts of America’s Deep South certainly historic will be talked for years to come.

record

[DreaminAboutPalms]

1 hour ago, mthteh1916 said:

yeah but the damage will linger for very long. every cidp and washie is dead all along the gulf coast except New Orleans. how can a cidp take single digits? I think this will be very very ugly for years. It takes years to grow tall cidp and washies. they will all be dead dead. 

We still have CIDP in Dallas Fort Worth that refuse to die. They should be fine.

CIDP are very hardy once well established. They will grow stunted fronds after a freeze like this, but in this region where growing season is long and there is lots of summer heat they should be able to regain a full crown by end of year

[_nevi]

26 minutes ago, PalmsNC said:

I feel bad for the Gulf Coast, this cold blast would not have yielded such low temps if it had not been for that snowstorm. Much of Louisiana would have saw mid-upper teens at coldest. Snowstorms suck and are often times why we see extreme lows, the cold blast itself without the snow is fine... with it you drop like a rock.

On the other hand, I'm sure it's possible to have loads of snow without such cold temps. That's what is seen in parts of Japan.
Toyama (city) - Wikipedia

Maybe also Faroe Islands
Geography of the Faroe Islands - Wikipedia

Hence, continentality is a big problem, as @mthteh1916 mentioned. That continentality fed very low dewpoint air as far south as the Gulf Coast. And that simply would allow the bottom to drop with the radiational event.

New Orleans needs to be watched tonight, as I doubt all that snow can melt all that quickly. Same for any South Atlantic coastal areas if they got a lot of snow.

[Chester B]

I hit 19F last night briefly, but at midnight it was already 24F, so pretty cold.  I didn't think the snow was going to be mostly gone today at noon, but the last two hours it has melted a ton.

[Arecaceus]

2 hours ago, MarcusH said:

Sabal causiarum has some leaf damage from the freeze. The lows were 24.7 . Not as leaf hardy as I thought or is it because it's still a strap leaf ? Any causiarum grower please step forward and tell me your experiences on leaf hardiness and how fast they grow back?  

Robusta looks good. 

Filiferas and Butia didn’t seem to notice the cold. 

 Below pictures Sabal Causiarum and W.Robusta 

This just looks like discoloration. After warm weather for a few days you might see the extent of damage. My causiarum seedling has seen -5°C with no to very minor leaf damage. Keep in mind that at the ground the temps are often lower than where you measure.

[DAVEinMB]

Luckily we didn't get the 8"-12" weather channel was saying but still got some historical accumulation

@ahosey01 @Subtropical LIS

[Chester B]

@DAVEinMB what have your temps been?

[DAVEinMB]

2 minutes ago, Chester B said:

@DAVEinMB what have your temps been?

Up to this point it hasn't dropped below 20 but we're supposed to see 16 tonight

[Chester B]

2 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

Up to this point it hasn't dropped below 20 but we're supposed to see 16 tonight

Have you had temps that low since you've planted all your palms?

[MarcusH]

2 hours ago, Allen said:

Did you have a sensor?  I'm showing some areas colder than that around you

I don't have a sensor but I'm close to loop 410 which is considered to be warmer than outside of loop 1604.  The nearest official weather station is 5 miles northeast of my house. 

[ahosey01]

12 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

Luckily we didn't get the 8"-12" weather channel was saying but still got some historical accumulation

@ahosey01 @Subtropical LIS

That amount of snow cover with those clear, blue skies and clear lack of wind would freak me out.

[MarcusH]

10 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

Luckily we didn't get the 8"-12" weather channel was saying but still got some historical accumulation

@ahosey01 @Subtropical LIS

Regardless of the damage these storms cause but palm trees surrounded by snow look so beautiful.  Frame some of your pictures and hang them on the wall.  Just beautiful. 

[DAVEinMB]

1 minute ago, Chester B said:

Have you had temps that low since you've planted all your palms?

The lowest i got in my yard was either 13 or 14 a few years ago, i can't remember which.  But yea all my palms have seen nonsense before and most have made it through, especially the bigger ones. 

[DAVEinMB]

15 minutes ago, ahosey01 said:

That amount of snow cover with those clear, blue skies and clear lack of wind would freak me out.

Yea it's a very strange situation and start to the year. I'm about to head to the coast and take some pics... hopefully it's my only opportunity to get these kind of pictures

Also, i didn't think about it when i was taking the pictures but you are right... place has an eerie feeling right now

[Tropicdoc]

Sun is getting low and we still have plenty snow on the ground.

forecast is 20 tonight. Was 16 last night. 
my backyard smells like dead plants.

[mthteh1916]

5 minutes ago, Tropicdoc said:

Sun is getting low and we still have plenty snow on the ground.

forecast is 20 tonight. Was 16 last night. 
my backyard smells like dead plants.

16F is pretty good for all that snow cover. most things will be okay in another summer with those temps. 

[DAVEinMB]

[Las Palmas Norte]

^^^ No golfing today ^^^

[Swolte]

Hmm, took me a while to find this thread again. Not sure if it fits in weather. Its more like PALM and COLD weather? Perhaps put it into a forum for people who grow hardy palms in areas that get hit by cold?

I guess someone is moving these type of threads. If you agree, please voice your support here (or not, if you think its obvious to go to a 'Weather' forum if you want to learn about how Cold hardy palms are faring through storms):

 

[JeskiM]

Watch out for them SnowGators 

-Matt

[DAVEinMB]

@Las Palmas Norte @JeskiM yous gave me a good laugh.  Thank you 🤙

[Las Palmas Norte]

2 hours ago, DAVEinMB said:

Up to this point it hasn't dropped below 20 but we're supposed to see 16 tonight

[_nevi]

9 hours ago, ChrisA said:

I know what you are saying @UK_Palms, the fact that the mountain ranges of the NA continent run north-south along both coasts leaves us open to disastrous cold air. Across the vast Great Plains there is absolutely no topographical impediment to the frigid air that can get funneled down far into the subtropics. In Europe the Alps run east-west which blocks the bitter cold found towards the pole from being able to penetrate into southern Europe.

If the US had a large mountain range that ran from Colorado to Georgia, there would be coconut palms all along the gulf coast. It would be solidly subtropical. Not that you couldn’t still get a freeze, but it couldn’t get to -2F like it did west of Lafayette, Louisiana this morning. Also rainfall would be much higher as the mountains would give a lifting mechanism to form thunderstorms all along the chain.

Of course having such a mountain range would be detrimental to the US’s “bread basket”. The center of the country would be a dust bowl, a rain shadow on three sides.

Depending on how tall the mountains are, it might be possible for the climate to totally be frost-free. 

South of the Himalayas in India, there is a place at around the latitude of Corpus Christi where temps have never been below 40°F since the 1957:
Pasighat - Wikipedia