Polar Vortex Jan 2025 - Are you preparing your palms?

[Xerarch]

No sign of any freeze in these parts, the lowest for my yard so far has been 38 degrees.  Friday night is the next coldest in the forecast but still doesn't look like a freeze at this point, I haven't protected anything, fingers crossed.

[Subtropical LIS]

Looking at yesterdays highs...the cold  looks to have made it to the Atlantic coast. Most NWS reporting stations from coastal North Carolina south to south central - Florida were about 10 - 15 F below normal/lows about 7 - 10 F below normal. 

Some highs/lows yesterday:

Charleston, SC = 47 F/36 F

Savannah, GA   = 51 F/32 F

Jacksonville, FL = 52 F/30 F

Melbourne, FL = 59 F/52 F

Miami, FL = 71 F/53 F

Two more cold days still to come:

 

[LakeEriePalms]

Palm trees in garage are holding up well, same for banana (musa basjoo) in pots 

First winter leaving some in ground under mulch. I placed a thermometer beside them under everything. Temp outside is 12F but still 32.3F under all the mulch 

How much lower can the musa tolerate? Says hardy to zone 5 but is that protected zone 5 or exposure to zone 5 temperatures? 

[Swolte]

33 minutes ago, LakeEriePalms said:

musa basjoo

Mine returned from 3 F unprotected with no trouble. I am sure if you throw some leaves/mulch over it you should be even more than fine.
 

[Allen]

52 minutes ago, LakeEriePalms said:

Palm trees in garage are holding up well, same for banana (musa basjoo) in pots 

First winter leaving some in ground under mulch. I placed a thermometer beside them under everything. Temp outside is 12F but still 32.3F under all the mulch 

How much lower can the musa tolerate? Says hardy to zone 5 but is that protected zone 5 or exposure to zone 5 temperatures? 

A large mat of musa basjoo will come back from extremely low temps like -20F.  People get confused because they put out a small one from the nursery and it doesn't grow much and freezes the first winter.  It also depends on snow cover, whether it is mulched during the low temps, etc.  

Here are some more tropical plants that do well in cold

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Kqdoh1SLWs

[Subtropical LIS]

1 hour ago, LakeEriePalms said:

Palm trees in garage are holding up well, same for banana (musa basjoo) in pots 

First winter leaving some in ground under mulch. I placed a thermometer beside them under everything. Temp outside is 12F but still 32.3F under all the mulch 

How much lower can the musa tolerate? Says hardy to zone 5 but is that protected zone 5 or exposure to zone 5 temperatures? 

I would agree with others...I think you'll be fine. 

I have them growing at my house along CT coast and I used to cover them every year and they always came back fine.  I've now reached the point I don't even cover them -  and while what is above ground rots out/dies from cold/wet...the root gets so thick and dense,  new ones emerge in spring from the patch/mound (which will keep getting bigger - lol).  So if you cover and mulch them them I would think they will be fine.   

Here is what mine looked like after freeze in December...I just cut away everything to within 6 inches of the ground:

 

 

They come back to this every year:

 

[DTS]

2 hours ago, Allen said:

A large mat of musa basjoo will come back from extremely low temps like -20F.  People get confused because they put out a small one from the nursery and it doesn't grow much and freezes the first winter.  It also depends on snow cover, whether it is mulched during the low temps, etc.  

Here are some more tropical plants that do well in cold

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Kqdoh1SLWs

I can never find a good source of musa basjoo, idk if the nersuery near me that was selling them was legit or not. It might be though, the sucker didn't die back until late november

[Las Palmas Norte]

I cut all the banana (basjoo) leaves off of mine after the cyclone bomb turned them into a shredded mess.  I mulched them in preparation of a freeze.

[CascadiaPalms]

56/42 here in Portland.  

Our vegetation feels tricked, thinking it's an early spring.

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15trhDgw1s/

[UK_Palms]

21 hours ago, Swolte said:

Thanks for sharing that channel. Looks like a good one to subscribe to. I hope his collection will be OK. He just posted a video a few hrs ago!

 

I have been following Craig from 'Grow Paradise' for some time now and it always amazed how our friends in the UK can get their hands on some of that hardy exotic stuff:  https://www.youtube.com/@GrowParadise

I believe Craig is near the South coast so he should be better off!!

 

The last time temperatures below -20C / -5F were recorded in the UK was back in January 2021. So they do happen every few years. They had -22C / -8F up in the Scottish Highlands 4 years ago, I think. Nobody lives there really and nobody grows palms there.

The -15C / 5F is in the mountainous areas of northern England. Again nobody is really living or growing palms there either. No guarantee it even gets this cold as well. I doubt it will really go lower than about -18C / 0F in the Scottish Highlands and about -13C / 9F in northern England. We will see.

 

I don't think that Yorkshire Kris guy will have more than about -8C / 17F in his location. Enough to damage a bunch of stuff, but not kill his palms.The least hardiest thing he has really is a CIDP. Whether or not the duration of the event will start to be a problem though, is another thing entirely. -8C / 17F minimums combined with snowfall and a whole week below freezing petty much. Once this is over he would have had 7-10 days probably where the temperature has not really gone much above freezing. So no real thaw or anything, whereas I have had proper thaws every day down south after any nighttime frosts. So that is what makes it quite serious for northern regions. The prolonged nature of it, as much of the absolute mins.

Here is the latest Met Office UKV model showing the minimums for Friday morning. Not too bad overall. I see one -17C grid point...

 

The Leeds CIDP is going to get tested though. This is right in the middle of northern England, not far from Yorkshire Kris. The hills nearby are expecting -10C / 14F tonight and probably -13C or -14C / 6-10F tomorrow. The centre of Leeds should have some UHI and it is also kind of protected as well, compared to the more mountainous areas surrounding it. So I think that CIDP will probably be okay. But no guarantees during this event.

 

I can't believe I am saying this, but central London may go down to -2C / 28F tomorrow night.

 

Looks like the Isles of Scilly will hit 5C / 41F on Thursday night / Friday morning as the polar incursion peaks for the UK. They might want to wrap the recently planted Beccariophoenix Alfredii's at Tresco... 🤣

[LakeEriePalms]

8 hours ago, Subtropical LIS said:

I would agree with others...I think you'll be fine. 

I have them growing at my house along CT coast and I used to cover them every year and they always came back fine.  I've now reached the point I don't even cover them -  and while what is above ground rots out/dies from cold/wet...the root gets so thick and dense,  new ones emerge in spring from the patch/mound (which will keep getting bigger - lol).  So if you cover and mulch them them I would think they will be fine.   

Here is what mine looked like after freeze in December...I just cut away everything to within 6 inches of the ground:

 

 

They come back to this every year:

 

Nice, thanks for all the replies! 
 

here’s what they looked like end of October before I cut them down to 6” and mulched, tarp, mulch. I eventually got more so the tarp stopped showing 

 

[Allen]

3 minutes ago, LakeEriePalms said:

Nice, thanks for all the replies! 
 

here’s what they looked like end of October before I cut them down to 6” and mulched, tarp, mulch. I eventually got more so the tarp stopped showing 

 

You wont have a problem

[Las Palmas Norte]

5 hours ago, CascadiaPalms said:

56/42 here in Portland.  

Our vegetation feels tricked, thinking it's an early spring.

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15trhDgw1s/

Same up here on Vancouver Island. We had some temps over 60°F not long ago.

It's gotta come to an end (hopefully not) eventually. A month from now we usually see some pretty solid signs of spring. 

[Subtropical LIS]

2 hours ago, LakeEriePalms said:

Nice, thanks for all the replies! 
 

here’s what they looked like end of October before I cut them down to 6” and mulched, tarp, mulch. I eventually got more so the tarp stopped showing 

 

Very nice looking.

Those are pretty large already.  I don't think you even need the double mulch. Granted they do come back faster when covered, but looking at the size of yours already (and how dense and deep I'll bet the roots are) I don't think you could kill them even if you wanted to - lol. Musa is truly tough.

IMO, musa is one of the best go to plants for the tropical look. They look even cooler during summer rainstorms when the leaves are wet (looks like a  Caribbean Island - lol) . I shot this picture during Tropical Storm Debby in Myrtle Beach this past summer. 

[_nevi]

On 1/3/2025 at 9:49 AM, Xenon said:

So much for the "polar vortex" LOL. The cold hype didn't even survive the first partial week of January. 

Looks like you were correct all along for your location.

Still looks like a snowstorm that should hit the mid-South, however.

[TropicsEnjoyer]

Wrapped my fishtail (C. mitis) in xmas lights but this is about the only palm I’ve used any protective measures on. I think it’s working though because I had my first freeze today and it’s relatively unscathed. To be fair I don’t have to protect much anyway. 

On a side note my dwarf cav bananas are all fried. Im gonna have to do better at protecting them next year, xmas lights were not enough. Somehow I’ve been able to keep a rack of bananas alive on a trunk, though it’s the only green thing left out there. It’s wrapped in lights and a shirt. Nobody else seems to discuss protecting winter fruits.

[computadude]

I left all my palms (including young washies and queen palms) completely unprotected last night. Forecast was 30 degrees and according to my weather station, it actually dipped down to 26.7, so they were exposed to below 30 temps for about 5 hours. Now it's 46 and rising. There's no visible damage at this point, but we'll see if any of the fronds will turn burn in the next couple of days / weeks. 

[Arecaceus]

Today it was snowing and raining the whole day. Got a good amount of melting slush. It finally stopped in the evening. There is new rain coming this night though. So far still no frost from the polar vortex event. We were supposed to at least go down to -1°C by now. Maybe this night will be the night. 😂

[Las Palmas Norte]

Right on cue, Camillia sasangqua flowering as it does in winter. I passed by these today and I had small C. sasangqua trees at our last place.

 

[PaPalmTrees]

Looks like a couple more nights in the teens and then the weather's gonna go back to average.

[JRVL]

Protection kept the sylvestris nice and warm through the snow. 

[Mazat]

we had a low of -0.4 °C / 31.28 °F at 7:54 this morning in the community garden and a max of 6.1 °C / 42.98 °F so far in the sunshine.
the water temperature of lake constance is currently 5.9 °C / 42.62 °F

we hope it doesn't get as low as the weather forecast predicts, especially on sunday and monday:

 

[Mazat]

2 minutes ago, Mazat said:

we had a low of -0.4 °C / 31.28 °F at 7:54 this morning in the community garden and a max of 6.1 °C / 42.98 °F so far in the sunshine.
the water temperature of lake constance is currently 5.9 °C / 42.62 °F

we hope it doesn't get as low as the weather forecast predicts, especially on sunday and monday:

 

 

[PaPalmTrees]

Wow I woke up and it’s 4 degrees, that was unexpected hopefully this is it for the cold It's been a horrible winter.

[UK_Palms]

I got smashed here last night. -5.5C / 22F minimum with clear skies all night under the arctic airmass. These were my local temps at about 8am after rising slightly…

Absolute minimum of -14.5C / in northern Scotland. Nowhere near the -20C / -5F being touted earlier in the week, but we will see what tonight brings. It will probably be a bit lower in places.

 

A massive flex from southwest England again last night. The coastal parts of Cornwall and Devon were so mild that I couldn’t quite believe what I was seeing, despite having -7C hPa 850 temps overhead. It seems a monumental task just to get winter temps below 7C / 45F in the Isles of Scilly. Notice the default -5C showing for my nearest station below… against these temps at 8am in Cornwall and Devon. These places were 10-13C / 20-25F warmer. They even put central London to shame…

 

I had made a video inside the garage at midnight last night showing the stuff in pots that I had dragged under cover. The garage is at the bottom of my garden and not attached to the house, so it can get pretty cold in there still. I heated it to +7C / 44F before I went to bed, but when I woke up it was down to +1C / 34F inside! Still better than my stuff being outside and exposed to -5.5C / 22F!

 

 

 

 

[Foxpalms]

Lows here in central London this morning. 

 

 

[Mazat]

1 hour ago, UK_Palms said:

I got smashed here last night. -5.5C / 22F minimum with clear skies all night under the arctic airmass. These were my local temps at about 8am after rising slightly…

Absolute minimum of -14.5C / in northern Scotland. Nowhere near the -20C / -5F being touted earlier in the week, but we will see what tonight brings. It will probably be a bit lower in places.

 

A massive flex from southwest England again last night. The coastal parts of Cornwall and Devon were so mild that I couldn’t quite believe what I was seeing, despite having -7C hPa 850 temps overhead. It seems a monumental task just to get winter temps below 7C / 45F in the Isles of Scilly. Notice the default -5C showing for my nearest station below… against these temps at 8am in Cornwall and Devon. These places were 10-13C / 20-25F warmer. They even put central London to shame…

 

I had made a video inside the garage at midnight last night showing the stuff in pots that I had dragged under cover. The garage is at the bottom of my garden and not attached to the house, so it can get pretty cold in there still. I heated it to +7C / 44F before I went to bed, but when I woke up it was down to +1C / 34F inside! Still better than my stuff being outside and exposed to -5.5C / 22F!

 

IMG_9487.MOV 91.6 MB · 1 download  

 

 

 

I am surprised that the temperature dropped so low in your garden and relatively close to London ...

this just shows how unpredictable the weather can be. several years it stays within the range with absolute minimum temperatures and then it still falls below the usda zone value again

 

[Subtropical LIS]

11 hours ago, PaPalmTrees said:

Looks like a couple more nights in the teens and then the weather's gonna go back to average.

Looking at NOAA's output this morning...I think your right. It seems the curve is now up closer to normal.

Yesterday most stations reported the lowest highs/lows of the cold snap. Today and Saturday, temps look to get closer to normal...and by Sunday (give or take a few degrees +/-), the vast majority of the USA will see close to normal temps. I only see a small area in the upper south (roughly AR to NC in blue box) that will be about 7 - 10 F below normal by Sunday. Areas up the Cheasapeak Bay are still running 5 - 8 below normal.

By Sunday...average January highs should fall very close to forecasted highs (FH)  based on January climo..

Miami =  normal Jan high 75 F (forecasted = 75 F) 
Orlando =  normal high 71 F ( = 66 F)
Los Angeles =  normal high 68 F (=67 F)
Houston = normal high 63 F (=60 F)
Phoenix = normal high 67 F (=63 F)
Charleston = normal high 60 F (=52 F)
Dallas = normal high 57 F (=51 F)
Raleigh = normal high 51 F (=40 F)
Washington DC = normal high 45 F (38 F)
NYC = normal high 40 F (=40 F)
Chicago = normal high 31 F (=31 F)
Minn = normal high 23 F (=26 F)

Forecasted highs Sunday:

 

 

Was cool here yesterday (high was only 69 F) so had to break out the light jacket - but sky was nice shade of blue:

 

[Foxpalms]

16 minutes ago, Mazat said:

I am surprised that the temperature dropped so low in your garden and relatively close to London ...

this just shows how unpredictable the weather can be. several years it stays within the range with absolute minimum temperatures and then it still falls below the usda zone value again

 

On bad winters it can be up to 6-7c warmer here than where UK palms is, guess that is the downside of living inland with no urban heat island. So far Guildford has had a zone 9a winter there whilst here its been zone 10a. Guildford is around a 25min drive away from the outer most outskirts of London, or an hour and a half from here.

[Las Palmas Norte]

4 hours ago, JRVL said:

Protection kept the sylvestris nice and warm through the snow. 

I still have a hard time associating snow with states near the Gulf of ******. 😄

[JRVL]

28 minutes ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

I still have a hard time associating snow with states near the Gulf of ******. 😄

It's a bit weird for sure. I'm more north than I used to be. I grew up at the actual coast, which caused my love for palms most likely. 

[Mazat]

1 hour ago, Foxpalms said:

On bad winters it can be up to 6-7c warmer here than where UK palms is, guess that is the downside of living inland with no urban heat island. So far Guildford has had a zone 9a winter there whilst here its been zone 10a. Guildford is around a 25min drive away from the outer most outskirts of London, or an hour and a half from here.

thank you very much for your very good explanation and explanations. these are really very big temperature differences, wow. absolutely fascinating these different climates.
i know this personally from the larger (what is large 🙃) cities here in switzerland with the urban heat islands. however, a very extreme example can be found on lake walen. on the southern shore it has up to 5 degrees and above lower temperatures than it has at the same time on the northern shore in quinten and that at different times of the day.
quinten (someone once asked if this was a fruit) has around 20-28 frost days a year, in 2024 23,

absolute minimum temperature - 3.2 °C,/26.24 °F,  12.2 °c / 53.96 °F annual average at station 450 m above sea level away from village near forest and in the center itself 13°C, 1650mm rainfall as an example 2024. when it has snow everywhere in german-speaking switzerland there was usually none or if at all 1-2cm. 

 

[Las Palmas Norte]

There's some new albeit, slow new growth on my Windmills and Needle, palms this winter.

 

[Las Palmas Norte]

Also, I dug up and cut these Zantedeschia back in early November. They've resided along the south west wall since and scarcely stopped growing. I'll move em if the weather turns.

[UK_Palms]

11 hours ago, Mazat said:

I am surprised that the temperature dropped so low in your garden and relatively close to London ...

this just shows how unpredictable the weather can be. several years it stays within the range with absolute minimum temperatures and then it still falls below the usda zone value again

 

Firstly the UK and much of Scandinavia has had a direct hit with this arctic plunge, whereas most of mainland Europe and Central Europe has been spared largely. The departure from average has been nowhere near as bad for France, Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Czechia, Hungary, Slovakia, Poland etc. Most of the cold air came down through Norway on the western side of Scandinavia and straight into Scotland and England.

Also I am outside of the London metropolitan area and I actually live in a tiny village with no UHI whatsoever. So I have no real protection and I am also 35 miles inland from the coast too. The area I live in is a bit of a frost pocket and I have been meaning to move away (to the south coast) for some time. You can see my location below marked with the blue dot…

 

London is cold at the moment anyway. Even with that massive UHI it won’t keep the frost away during this event. St James Park in central London is reporting +0.1C / 32F at 1am. Heavy UHI influence despite it being an open park.

Heathrow is reporting a chilly -2.9C / 26F…

Kew Gardens is reporting a shocking -5C / 23F… but of course that is a frost hollow in west London. Even still that is a 5C difference between St James Park and Kew and they are only 7.2 miles apart in the city.

Torquay, Paignton and Brixham area of Devon also ridiculously mild. Arguably the 2nd mildest spot during arctic blasts after the Scilly Isles. Locally 8C / 46F there at 1am, despite the polar vortex event effecting us. A proper microclimate. Get the Beccariophoenix Alfredii in the ground there!!!

Then you have the impregnable frost fortress of the Isles of Scilly that hasn’t had a January air frost in 28 years now. The last time it reached 0.0C / 32F there in January was 1997. The Met Office station there has just reported a shocking +9.6C / 49F at 01:00am. NINE POINT SIX! During a ‘vortex’ type event. Worlds apart from here. 16C / 30F warmer than my location right now ffs. I'm not sure whether that says more about how mild the Scilly Isles are, or more about how crap my location is. A bit of both.

 

It is officially the coldest night of winter anyway for the UK with -18.1°C / 0F in the far northern Highlands of Scotland. So that is a 27.7°C / 55F difference between north central Scotland and the Isles of Scilly at midnight! It’s not often that large of a gap! We aren’t a very big place geographically speaking.

My Musa Basjoo clump is too large and too wide to protect properly. I suspect it is going to take quite the hit once this polar vortex has moved out of town! I am down to -5C / 23F at 1am!!! I am expecting at least -6C / 21F tonight. Probably -7C / 19F. This is likely to be the coldest night of winter overall for the UK this year. I doubt it will be beaten looking at the models.

You can see just how cold my area is below. A proper frost pocket here due to the surrounding valleys channelling cold and my house being at lower elevation. So the cold pools around here. I really need to move away!

[Dartolution]

Nothing but a nasty wet slurry of ice pellets and slush down here. Several inches in fact. 

To all the northern gardeners: Your weather is down here drunk in our backyards. You need to come get it please! 

😭😭😭

[Las Palmas Norte]

It'll melt. At least your house and neighborhood is still standing. 

[Foxpalms]

So far so good. Cornwall and Devon have that warmer air mass coming in now so they are back to normal temps. That warmer air mass being on the edge of western England is likely why the temps are holding now not dropping.  No frost outside St Paul's cathedral at the moment, the nearby kentia palms are fine and completely undamaged unsuprisingly.

 

 

[Foxpalms]

11 hours ago, Mazat said:

thank you very much for your very good explanation and explanations. these are really very big temperature differences, wow. absolutely fascinating these different climates.
i know this personally from the larger (what is large 🙃) cities here in switzerland with the urban heat islands. however, a very extreme example can be found on lake walen. on the southern shore it has up to 5 degrees and above lower temperatures than it has at the same time on the northern shore in quinten and that at different times of the day.
quinten (someone once asked if this was a fruit) has around 20-28 frost days a year, in 2024 23,

absolute minimum temperature - 3.2 °C,/26.24 °F,  12.2 °c / 53.96 °F annual average at station 450 m above sea level away from village near forest and in the center itself 13°C, 1650mm rainfall as an example 2024. when it has snow everywhere in german-speaking switzerland there was usually none or if at all 1-2cm. 

 

Tonight it's currently 13f/7.2c warmer here and if the temp drops more it will be even more of a difference. 

My beccariophoenix alfredii are unfased as well as the bismarckia, archontophoenix ect, meanwhile out in the country side you are limited to solid 9a palms in better microclimate spots in the garden and 8b and lower palms.

 

[Axel Amsterdam]

1 hour ago, Foxpalms said:

Tonight it's currently 13f/7.2c warmer here and if the temp drops more it will be even more of a difference. 

My beccariophoenix alfredii are unfased as well as the bismarckia, archontophoenix ect, meanwhile out in the country side you are limited to solid 9a palms in better microclimate spots in the garden and 8b and lower palms.

 

Your station has a slightly different reading than nearby stations.