Trees for heavy clay...

[ahosey01]

I have a heavy, alkaline clay soil that is not usually soggy but is definitely moist.  Emphasis on "heavy".

Trying to think of some good tree options that will get a decent size and provide cover to some tender palms.  Oaks and potentially Mexican Sycamore seem like a good idea.  I just don't want a Quercus virginiana because at least 80% of the planted landscape trees in Brownsville are Quercus virginiana.  Want something bombproof to the Texas cold - even the generational freezes.  Flowering would be great too.

Texas ebony would be perfect if it grew faster.... lol

Anyone got any ideas?

[ahosey01]

Montezuma cypress also seems like a good option except for the fact it will be like 20' from my house...

[Than]

Isn't Mexican sycamore deciduous? Don't you want an evergreen tree that will provide canopy during the winter?

[ahosey01]

2 minutes ago, Than said:

Isn't Mexican sycamore deciduous? Don't you want an evergreen tree that will provide canopy during the winter?

Well I don't know for sure down here to what degree it would be deciduous.

Way it works, as I've observed, is that sometimes these deciduous trees in climates like mine won't actually drop their leaves until the freeze comes.   Don't know if Mexican Sycamore falls into that category or not.  I used to see this in Arizona as well - some would reliably show fall color around the same time every year (chinese pistache) while others would not show any until nighttime temps got into the 30s.

[Than]

Either way when the second freeze comes your palms will be without a cover 

[thyerr01]

Various Magnolias do well in similar soils in Houston. I like M. virginiana and M. tamaulipana, and both enjoy evenly moist conditions.

[ahosey01]

5 hours ago, Than said:

Either way when the second freeze comes your palms will be without a cover 

I don't know if we've ever even had two in a year in Brownsville...

[amh]

Parkinsonia florida or mulberry are fast growers and will probably remain evergreen in your zone.

[Than]

12 hours ago, thyerr01 said:

Various Magnolias do well in similar soils in Houston. I like M. virginiana and M. tamaulipana, and both enjoy evenly moist conditions.

Virginiana wants acidic soil 

[Austinpalm]

On 1/24/2025 at 8:57 PM, ahosey01 said:

I have a heavy, alkaline clay soil that is not usually soggy but is definitely moist.  Emphasis on "heavy".

Trying to think of some good tree options that will get a decent size and provide cover to some tender palms.  Oaks and potentially Mexican Sycamore seem like a good idea.  I just don't want a Quercus virginiana because at least 80% of the planted landscape trees in Brownsville are Quercus virginiana.  Want something bombproof to the Texas cold - even the generational freezes.  Flowering would be great too.

Texas ebony would be perfect if it grew faster.... lol

Anyone got any ideas?

Not sure there is another reliable oak for Brownsville besides Q. virginiana. Those that can handle real cold, generally need overall cooler temps than you'll have in Brownsville.  I have not noticed the Mexican Q. germana, polymorpha, rysophylla, in south Texas but I could have easily missed them.  You might also take a look at some of the central/south Florida oak species.

As far as ebony, if you water it in the summer, it will grow faster than my might expect.  But am guessing you would have the same issue as you would with a Montezuma cypress.

You might consider Parkinsonia acueleata, Erythrina herbacea var. arborea, or Vachellia farnesiana.  All are native, grow somewhat fast, do not get huge,  and flower well. One issue is that all have thorns and Parkinsonia can be a little untidy with dropped seeds/branches.  Each should do well in your soil though.  V. farnesiana has a great fragrance.

[SeanK]

6 hours ago, Than said:

Virginiana wants acidic soil 

My first thought also; pH.

I expect alkalinity is a bigger issue than soil density.

[thyerr01]

@Than@SeanK Houston has heavy black clay which is naturally alkaline. Magnolia grandiflora is extremely common here and I've seen the other two species around as well. They generally grow well, and really only time I see them struggle is when they get too dry. Would they benefit from soil amendments and a lower pH, sure.

[Than]

1 hour ago, thyerr01 said:

@Than@SeanK Houston has heavy black clay which is naturally alkaline. Magnolia grandiflora is extremely common here and I've seen the other two species around as well. They generally grow well, and really only time I see them struggle is when they get too dry. Would they benefit from soil amendments and a lower pH, sure.

Our soil here is also alkaline, full of lime. Magnolia grandiflora is in every other garden. It is true that I see some trees that like acidic soil do well here, like Syagrus.