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Texas panhandle palms?


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Posted

Texas Texas Texas. There must be some in the panhandle. Lets see 'em.

  • Like 1
Posted
  On 1/30/2025 at 12:16 AM, Las Palmas Norte said:

Texas Texas Texas. There must be some in the panhandle. Lets see 'em.

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How far in the panhandle are you suggesting? Typically Lubbock is the farthest north I go. I’ll look around and take pictures up there when I go. Surely they are some, it’s 7a or 7b? Amarillo is 6 I think so probably less there.

  • Like 1
Posted
  On 1/30/2025 at 2:22 AM, KPoff said:

How far in the panhandle are you suggesting? Typically Lubbock is the farthest north I go. I’ll look around and take pictures up there when I go. Surely they are some, it’s 7a or 7b? Amarillo is 6 I think so probably less there.

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I lied Lubbock is 7b/8a and Amarillo is 7a.

  • Like 1
Posted

There were a small handful in Wichita Falls, which I think is 7b/8a. I saw some Sabals and Filifera. I don’t know if they died recently though. They probably died in 2021. I saw them several years ago prior to 2021. This is right on the OK border. 
 

Also, there are still some Sabals at the casino in Durant Oklahoma. It appears many died in 2021 but there are some left. 

  • Like 1
Posted
  On 1/30/2025 at 12:16 AM, Las Palmas Norte said:

Texas Texas Texas. There must be some in the panhandle. Lets see 'em.

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Seen some trachies persist for a couple years in Childress.  Gone now.  Childress is not on the caprock like Amarillo/Lubbock. 

Spent a week every month in Lubbock for years.  No trunking palms that I have seen last more than a couple years. Although I suspect sabal minors would be doable. 

I've literally seen it go from Arctic conditions to full on summer walking across a parking lot(city block.  The weather changes that fast. True story.  

Different world up on that caprock!

Llano estado https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llano_EstacadoLlanoEstacadoShadedRelief.jpg.eca09ac97ce1a60430b339f97196db60.jpg

  • Like 2
Posted

I worked in Lubbock and Abilene and surrounding areas for a couple of years, no palms that I can remember.

Posted

It depends one what everyone's definition of the panhandle actually is. While I've heard reports of filiferas in Wichita Falls and Abilene (prior to 2021) up on the caprock there are none that I know of. A sabal minor or needle palm in a south facing location is probably the only thing that would survive long term there. 

More options are certainly possible though with some winter protection. There used to be a nursery in Tulsa OK that had some decent sized robustas that they would wrap up for the winter. They survived over a decade until the 2021 blast which killed all but one. I guess after 2021 they gave up because they didn't protect the survivor the next winter and it too died.

Posted

I personally saw a handful of Filifera in Wichita Falls, 15 miles from Oklahoma. I personally saw a large trunking Sabal in Burkburnett Texas, literally on the Red River less than a mile from Oklahoma.  Someone also tried to plant a large Robusta they had shipped in, but it died within a year. 

Posted
  On 1/30/2025 at 7:36 PM, NBTX11 said:

I personally saw a handful of Filifera in Wichita Falls, 15 miles from Oklahoma. I personally saw a large trunking Sabal in Burkburnett Texas, literally on the Red River less than a mile from Oklahoma.  Someone also tried to plant a large Robusta they had shipped in, but it died within a year. 

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Looks like Wichita Falls got to -8 in 2021. I remember a post from you in a different thread in late February 2021 saying you saw one with no crown collapse. I'm not too hopeful it's alive, but would love to verify for myself. Do you remember where it was planted? I doubt you would remember exact address but if it's a hotel or something that would certainly narrow it down. 

Posted
  On 1/30/2025 at 8:40 AM, NBTX11 said:

There were a small handful in Wichita Falls, which I think is 7b/8a. I saw some Sabals and Filifera. I don’t know if they died recently though. They probably died in 2021. I saw them several years ago prior to 2021. This is right on the OK border. 
 

Also, there are still some Sabals at the casino in Durant Oklahoma. It appears many died in 2021 but there are some left. 

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The climate is a lot different in Lubbock than Witchita Falls even though they are both 7b/8a. Witchita Falls has more of the Dallas and central Texas climate and Lubbock is flat and dry and windy and north wind is brutal in the winter.

  • Like 1
Posted
  On 1/31/2025 at 2:20 AM, KPoff said:

The climate is a lot different in Lubbock than Witchita Falls even though they are both 7b/8a. Witchita Falls has more of the Dallas and central Texas climate and Lubbock is flat and dry and windy and north wind is brutal in the winter.

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Yes. Wichita Falls is similar to DFW, other than being a little colder in winter and hotter in summer, and less rainfall

Posted
  On 1/30/2025 at 8:13 PM, DreaminAboutPalms said:

Looks like Wichita Falls got to -8 in 2021. I remember a post from you in a different thread in late February 2021 saying you saw one with no crown collapse. I'm not too hopeful it's alive, but would love to verify for myself. Do you remember where it was planted? I doubt you would remember exact address but if it's a hotel or something that would certainly narrow it down. 

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Ok going off memory here. There was a decent sized tinkling Filifera on a side road near Kemp Blvd.  Near the intersection with Kell. There was another smaller one on Loop 11. There was a large Sabal on Preston Rd in Burkburnett. Those are the ones I can remember off the top of my head. 

Posted
  On 1/31/2025 at 2:53 AM, NBTX11 said:

Ok going off memory here. There was a decent sized tinkling Filifera on a side road near Kemp Blvd.  Near the intersection with Kell. There was another smaller one on Loop 11. There was a large Sabal on Preston Rd in Burkburnett. Those are the ones I can remember off the top of my head. 

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Found the sabal. Sadly it's dead though. From google maps though it looks like it probably lasted at least 20 years 

image.thumb.png.629772920b44a172fcd37a5eec2d18c4.png 

  • Like 1
Posted

image.thumb.png.8cf8db1876e4599b9d78e7b64cd882c5.pngAlso found this small Washingtonia a few blocks south of the Kell/Kemp intersection. It's gone now though. If you look earlier on google maps there were also sabal minor and a butia at one point.

  • Like 1
Posted
  On 1/31/2025 at 4:32 PM, DreaminAboutPalms said:

Found the sabal. Sadly it's dead though. From google maps though it looks like it probably lasted at least 20 years 

image.thumb.png.629772920b44a172fcd37a5eec2d18c4.png 

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This palm was there in 2000 or 2001. It was well over 20 years old. 

  • Like 1
Posted
  On 1/31/2025 at 4:43 PM, DreaminAboutPalms said:

image.thumb.png.8cf8db1876e4599b9d78e7b64cd882c5.pngAlso found this small Washingtonia a few blocks south of the Kell/Kemp intersection. It's gone now though. If you look earlier on google maps there were also sabal minor and a butia at one point.

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Yes. That’s the one. It’s fairly big for Wichita Falls. 

  • Like 1
Posted

The one on Loop 11 in Wichita Falls was a Filifera I believe but it was on one of the roads connecting to Loop 11, I think. If I remember correctly it was in front of some night club or such. I’m going off old memories here. There was also a tall Robusta that died. It was on the East side of loop 11 on on another main road. 

Posted
  On 1/31/2025 at 2:48 AM, NBTX11 said:

Yes. Wichita Falls is similar to DFW, other than being a little colder in winter and hotter in summer, and less rainfall

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So, not too similar 🤣

Posted
  On 2/1/2025 at 2:42 AM, Las Palmas Norte said:

So, not too similar 🤣

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It actually is.  It's not that far off.  Wichita Falls is around 100 miles from Fort Worth.  So, it would be similar climate wise to the Sherman Denison area with slightly less rainfall.

Palms aren't commonly planted there, but you can certainly grow them, as evidenced by the 25 year old Sabal and probably 7-10 year old Washingtonia in the photos. 

 

  • Like 1
  • 3 weeks later...
Posted
  On 1/30/2025 at 12:16 AM, Las Palmas Norte said:

Texas Texas Texas. There must be some in the panhandle. Lets see 'em.

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Here is a clue-nearly noonScreenshot_20250219-100057.thumb.png.1f7c7e83bb722a53c939da183191c4cf.png

Posted

I’ll be curious to see how the Midland-Odessa-San Angelo palms do. 

-Chris

San Antonio, TX - 2023 designated zone 9A 🐍 🌴🌅

(formerly Albuquerque, NM ☀️ zone 7B for 30 years)

Washingtonia filifera/ Washingtonia robusta/ Syagrus romanzoffiana/ Sabal mexicana/ Dioon edule

2024-2025 - low 23F/ 2023-2024 - low 18F/ 2022-2023 - low 16F/ 2021-2022 - low 21F/ 2020-2021 - low 9F

Posted
  On 2/19/2025 at 7:57 PM, ChrisA said:

I’ll be curious to see how the Midland-Odessa-San Angelo palms do. 

Expand  

@ChrisA I’ll let you know in a week or two. I’m sure there will be damage, but they have all survived colder winters.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
Posted

I speak on behalf of all of us.. im about tired of these weird arctic fronts..

Did these happen all the time and now I'm just noticing??

  • Like 2

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Posted
  On 2/19/2025 at 11:23 PM, SailorBold said:

I speak on behalf of all of us.. im about tired of these weird arctic fronts..

Did these happen all the time and now I'm just noticing??

Expand  

@SailorBold they seem way more common to me this year.

Posted (edited)
  On 2/19/2025 at 11:23 PM, SailorBold said:

I speak on behalf of all of us.. im about tired of these weird arctic fronts..

Did these happen all the time and now I'm just noticing??

Expand  

Up on the caprock(Clovis, Amarillo, Lubbock) they happen yearly(or nearly so). 

These places were approaching 90f beginning of the month and had nearly a week in in the eighties.  Now they are looking at nothing much above twenty for 3-4 days.  I won't mention this cold is brought and sustained with strong wind. 

Still searching for palms in the panhandle.  I will leave it at that. 

AmarilloScreenshot_20250219-212233.thumb.png.bfaa8d5b88edf9b7f95f0874078bea59.png

LubbockScreenshot_20250219-212318.thumb.png.2e40c6e13998cc80dbec11c98ad5dd1b.png

 

Edited by jwitt
Added data
  • Like 1
Posted
  On 2/19/2025 at 11:23 PM, SailorBold said:

I speak on behalf of all of us.. im about tired of these weird arctic fronts..

Did these happen all the time and now I'm just noticing??

Expand  

They’ve always happened, we only notice because of our obsession.  It’s like a new palm enthusiast on say Long Island (or anywhere on the northeast or mid Atlantic coast) that says oh I can plant a lot of different palms it never gets much below 20 where I live. I’ve seen it many times on the forum here. After they’ve planted their palm of choice that very first winter they suddenly realize exactly how often it gets below 20, and then that on top of that the day might not even reach 20!! 😂  I was a victim of this myself. Funny thing is I do not give a damn about the cold, never cared when it got cold before my palm obsession. Even now it’s 21F here in San Antonio I don’t mind the feel of it, I’ve got clothes! But what really pisses me off is that I had to sweat like a pig as I was wrapping everything up on Tuesday afternoon when it was muggy and warm. I mean how chaotic of a climate can you get? Once the front hit the temp plummeted from low 70’s to mid 40’s in just a few gusts of wind. Ridiculous. My poor plants! 😂 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

-Chris

San Antonio, TX - 2023 designated zone 9A 🐍 🌴🌅

(formerly Albuquerque, NM ☀️ zone 7B for 30 years)

Washingtonia filifera/ Washingtonia robusta/ Syagrus romanzoffiana/ Sabal mexicana/ Dioon edule

2024-2025 - low 23F/ 2023-2024 - low 18F/ 2022-2023 - low 16F/ 2021-2022 - low 21F/ 2020-2021 - low 9F

Posted

@ChrisAIt is amazing what plants and palms actually survive these conditions. 

Speaking of the panhandle where you can go from 90f mid winter to zero in mere hours, literally.  

Those live oaks in Lubbock are tuff!

  • Like 3
Posted
  On 2/19/2025 at 11:23 PM, SailorBold said:

I speak on behalf of all of us.. im about tired of these weird arctic fronts..

Did these happen all the time and now I'm just noticing??

Expand  

While the past decade has certainly been more volatile than normal they've always happened to a degree, but I think people are caught off guard because they pay too much attention here to hardiness zones when deciding what to plant.

In much of Texas, hardiness zones are frankly irrelevant. Austin might be a zone 9A (barely) on paper, but in the last 15 years, half the winters have been zone 8 or lower. 

  • Like 1
Posted
  On 2/20/2025 at 4:18 PM, DreaminAboutPalms said:

While the past decade has certainly been more volatile than normal they've always happened to a degree, but I think people are caught off guard because they pay too much attention here to hardiness zones when deciding what to plant.

In much of Texas, hardiness zones are frankly irrelevant. Austin might be a zone 9A (barely) on paper, but in the last 15 years, half the winters have been zone 8 or lower. 

Expand  

@DreaminAboutPalms I nerded out this last weekend looking at zone winters in west Texas. I live in Big Spring which seems like a cold zone 8A. I looked back at historical data on the low temperature measured each winter from 1948-2024. I was pleasantly surprised to find that 85% of the time we experienced 7B-8B winters and surprisingly enough each one (7b, 8a, 8b) were all represented equally so 8A seems appropriate. There were a few 9A winters in there but unfortunately about 10% of our winters are 6b/7a. So as you say zones are irrelevant in Texas unfortunately when every 10 years we will get palm slaying winters. The only thing I can think is that if I don’t want to protect anything which is kind of my goal I should only grow needle palms, hardy sabal species and some trachys. I do have a nannorhops seedling planted that has been unprotected all winter and looks good. We will see how it looks after this week. It’s purely a trial.

  • Like 2
Posted
  On 2/20/2025 at 4:18 PM, DreaminAboutPalms said:

While the past decade has certainly been more volatile than normal they've always happened to a degree, but I think people are caught off guard because they pay too much attention here to hardiness zones when deciding what to plant.

In much of Texas, hardiness zones are frankly irrelevant. Austin might be a zone 9A (barely) on paper, but in the last 15 years, half the winters have been zone 8 or lower. 

Expand  

I don't pay attention to Hardiness Zones at all. All I have to do is get the climate data from the last 100 years to get an idea what I can grow long term and what not.  

Our winters in Texas can be a zone and a half colder. That's huge. My area is rated as 9a but 7b winters do occur from time to time.  I adjusted my planting to more cold hardier palms. 

I want to point out that nothing is a guaranteed for long term survival since nobody knows how climate changes locally.  Right now it seems to be that it gets tougher dealing with severe droughts,  multiple freezes in winter and extreme summer temperatures that can shorten the lifespan of any palm in Texas . Other states aren't immune either.  Not a doomsday talker but the challenges to grow palms long-term are only going to increase in future. 

  • Upvote 1
Posted
  On 2/20/2025 at 9:16 PM, MarcusH said:

I don't pay attention to Hardiness Zones at all. All I have to do is get the climate data from the last 100 years to get an idea what I can grow long term and what not.  

Our winters in Texas can be a zone and a half colder. That's huge. My area is rated as 9a but 7b winters do occur from time to time.  I adjusted my planting to more cold hardier palms. 

I want to point out that nothing is a guaranteed for long term survival since nobody knows how climate changes locally.  Right now it seems to be that it gets tougher dealing with severe droughts,  multiple freezes in winter and extreme summer temperatures that can shorten the lifespan of any palm in Texas . Other states aren't immune either.  Not a doomsday talker but the challenges to grow palms long-term are only going to increase in future. 

Expand  

This right here is the correct approach. If everyone accounted for these 5-10-20 year lows, there wouldnt be so much heartbreak each winter. 

it’s a hard pill to swallow here because it’s so nice the majority of the time and lots of big cities here get the occasional zone 9 or 10 winter, but there’s lots of palms like robustas, queens, Dactyliferas, etc that simply have no shot at long term survival other than south texas

It seems like from the mid 90’s to early 2010’s, people in Texas forgot about the 1980’s, relied to much on hardiness zone and were planting robusta’s in DFW and austin, queen palms in central Texas, etc. 2011 was a wake up call for some. but not as much as 2021 which was a rude awakening for many.

I think the palmscape after the decade of colder winters in the 1980’s is a good barometer of what will survive long term and where. 

Posted
  On 2/19/2025 at 7:57 PM, ChrisA said:

I’ll be curious to see how the Midland-Odessa-San Angelo palms do. 

Expand  

San Angelo February 2022.

IMG_1999.jpeg

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There was also a member that used to run a landscaping business centered around Palms and cycads.

https://www.facebook.com/share/165YNmR3bR/?mibextid=wwXIfr

No longer in operation. He had tested quite a few palms on his property. From what I gathered his personal losses as far as palms were substantial.

 

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