Which palm would you plant here.

[Chester B]

I’m finally getting my fenced fixed and it’s time to start adding in more garden areas. I had planted this silver queen palm and I’m sure it’s dead. It did the worse of all of my Queen palms. This area gets full sun, is heavy clay and is a wetter area of my yard where the ground gets spongy after a big rain falls.  The candidates are a CIDP or a Sabal causiarum. 

[N8ALLRIGHT]

I vote sabal. Wet feet should equal happiness for it 👍

[Ben G.]

I prefer the CIDP for looks. If CIDP grow well and look nice in your area, I would grow that one.  The huge crown size can create nice shade, and I love the deep green color.

If CIDP tend to get diseased and/or don't look great in your area, you might want to grow the causiarum. Also if you worry about dogs or children being stabbed by any sharp plants, the causiarum would probably be the better choice as well.

[Xenon]

I would trunk cut that queen palm and start peroxide/copper. Seems like a waste not to give the special cold hardy silver queen a fighting chance 😝

[Fusca]

24 minutes ago, Xenon said:

I would trunk cut that queen palm and start peroxide/copper. Seems like a waste not to give the special cold hardy silver queen a fighting chance 😝

That's exactly what I was thinking.  I completely forgot to protect this Acrocomia seedling last month and it looked like the queen.  I was about to trunk cut it today but noticed it pushing new growth anyway.

[Chester B]

I've killed enough palms to know when they are dead by now😁 If you saw the inner spear you'd know what I mean.  This one ain't coming back and to be honest I can't be bothered with a palm that I will likely need to protect in the future.   I'll give it the old trunk cut,  it hasn't spear pulled yet.  

The other two are hardy and better looking palm IMO, plus I'm trying to create a wind barrier here.

One of the homes I back on to has two very large CIDP, so I know they do well in my area.  I've seen photos of CIDP's growing in ditches near water creeks and streams.  Can they handle wet feet?  I'm thinking yes.

Both of these palms were strap leaf things last spring, they both grow very fast here.

[PAPalmtrees]

20 hours ago, Chester B said:

I’m finally getting my fenced fixed and it’s time to start adding in more garden areas. I had planted this silver queen palm and I’m sure it’s dead. It did the worse of all of my Queen palms. This area gets full sun, is heavy clay and is a wetter area of my yard where the ground gets spongy after a big rain falls.  The candidates are a CIDP or a Sabal causiarum. 

In my opinion I would definitely choose a Sabal.

 

[Banana Belt]

A CIDP tolerates wet clay soil for sure and they grow relatively fast.  They also provide wind break, can take up space and provide shade when older.  It depends on what other uses you have for that area in general. 

[Chester B]

1 hour ago, Banana Belt said:

It depends on what other uses you have for that area in general. 

Nothing but garden,  with the secondary goals of creating some shade and help slow down the winds.  

[Banana Belt]

1 hour ago, Chester B said:

Nothing but garden

Texas must be very different from Clackamas as I have never been to Texas but I know Clackamas very well, hot windy desert compared to cold wet conifer forest.  So growing in high energy hot sunlight the shade from a Date Palm can be like an Oasis paradise where even the shade under the old Date Palm is good for other plants.  I have worked and lived in hot desert Oil Patches and I always looked forward to the Oasis shade of the Date Palms when the shift was done.  CIDP's are best enjoyed in the desert even though Texas is not technically a desert it is a lot closer to one than Oregon.

Also, Date Palms take up lots of water and evaporate it in the air, cooling down their surroundings.  This is well known in North Africa and Arabia especially when its windy.

[Chester B]

6 hours ago, Banana Belt said:

Texas must be very different from Clackamas as I have never been to Texas but I know Clackamas very well, hot windy desert compared to cold wet conifer forest.  So growing in high energy hot sunlight the shade from a Date Palm can be like an Oasis paradise where even the shade under the old Date Palm is good for other plants.  I have worked and lived in hot desert Oil Patches and I always looked forward to the Oasis shade of the Date Palms when the shift was done.  CIDP's are best enjoyed in the desert even though Texas is not technically a desert it is a lot closer to one than Oregon.

Also, Date Palms take up lots of water and evaporate it in the air, cooling down their surroundings.  This is well known in North Africa and Arabia especially when its windy.

My climate is more along the lines of New Orleans or Florida.  Hot, humid, steamy and a ton of rain.  50" of rain on average and we experience flooding frequently.  Houston is known as the Bayou city, the biggest problem here is water management from frequent downpours.  I'm surrounded by wetlands and alligators where my house is.

[Banana Belt]

1 hour ago, Chester B said:

I'm surrounded by wetlands and alligators where my house is

Obviously I have no idea what Texas is like.  God be with you in the swamps and don't take any of my advice because it is worthless.

[Keys6505]

On 2/9/2025 at 3:44 PM, Fusca said:

That's exactly what I was thinking.  I completely forgot to protect this Acrocomia seedling last month and it looked like the queen.  I was about to trunk cut it today but noticed it pushing new growth anyway.

What temp did this?

[Palmerr]

My Mimi which I visit for long term (Basically live there during summer) is living right beside a literal 'everglades' field with palmettos and crap that during hurricane season or some other events floods the field and floods your yard a bit! Fun! Prob should also say i live in Kissimmee because of my 2 month stays during summer hehe.

[ChrisA]

I’m voting for Sabal causiarum as well.  Mostly because I’d like to see more of them in Texas! Should be a stunning and solid palm for you. I’m curious how fast it’d grow as well. 

[ahosey01]

I find that down here the CIDPs in clay live shorter than the ones in loam or sand.  Plant the causiarum.

For what it's worth a hardy Livistona like mariae or decora would also really love those conditions and would grow much faster than both.

[Rivera]

I've only seen them at a palm nursery, but Sabal causiarum are really beautiful. If I lived in your conditions and had the space, I would consider one (or more). 

[Fusca]

13 hours ago, Keys6505 said:

What temp did this?

27°F and about 10 hours below freezing.  We hit 80°F just a few days prior and a few days after.  Very similar to the freeze we had last year but damage was different.  🤨

[Chester B]

4 hours ago, ahosey01 said:

I find that down here the CIDPs in clay live shorter than the ones in loam or sand.  Plant the causiarum.

For what it's worth a hardy Livistona like mariae or decora would also really love those conditions and would grow much faster than both.

That's what I was thinking I was worried about the soggy conditions and the CIDP.  And I do have two L nitida that will be planted in this area as well as the next layer down.  I'm putting in the jumbo palms first and then under planting with smaller palms.

 

1 hour ago, Rivera said:

I've only seen them at a palm nursery, but Sabal causiarum are really beautiful. If I lived in your conditions and had the space, I would consider one (or more). 

I have two so yes more is better.  I have 7 uresana as well and they get to just about the same size so I have to limit myself.  Plus I have a whole batch of Palmetto x Causiarum that I want to plant. 

[Chester B]

15 hours ago, Banana Belt said:

Obviously I have no idea what Texas is like.  God be with you in the swamps and don't take any of my advice because it is worthless.

It's a big state so lots of different climates and ecosystem throughout.  Most of it is drier than here, but generally East Texas is pretty green and has a lot of waterways.

[Dimovi]

Texas Sabal’s natural habitat is along the Rio Grande, where it thrives in both drought conditions and along riverbanks. Nothing performs as well in Texas as the Texas Sabal. It’s also completely unfazed by our extremely alkaline soil and doesn’t mind clay.

I recently harvested about 20 pounds of Texas Sabal seeds. If you're interested in free seeds, send me a DM. You’re welcome to pick them up if you’re ever in Austin, or I can ship them if you cover the cost.

As for this queen, it might make it. I have one about this size that freezes every other year. I cut it back to about four inches above the ground, and it keeps coming back.

[ahosey01]

32 minutes ago, Dimovi said:

Texas Sabal’s natural habitat is along the Rio Grande, where it thrives in both drought conditions and along riverbanks. Nothing performs as well in Texas as the Texas Sabal. It’s also completely unfazed by our extremely alkaline soil and doesn’t mind clay.

I recently harvested about 20 pounds of Texas Sabal seeds. If you're interested in free seeds, send me a DM. You’re welcome to pick them up if you’re ever in Austin, or I can ship them if you cover the cost.

As for this queen, it might make it. I have one about this size that freezes every other year. I cut it back to about four inches above the ground, and it keeps coming back.

Not only does it not mind clay, but you almost never find them growing naturally north or west of the clay line outside the floodplain of the Rio Grande.  Inside that line of heavy, mucky clay soil, though - they're everywhere.

[Robert Cade Ross]

On 2/9/2025 at 4:38 PM, Chester B said:

I've killed enough palms to know when they are dead by now😁 If you saw the inner spear you'd know what I mean.  This one ain't coming back and to be honest I can't be bothered with a palm that I will likely need to protect in the future.   I'll give it the old trunk cut,  it hasn't spear pulled yet.  

The other two are hardy and better looking palm IMO, plus I'm trying to create a wind barrier here.

One of the homes I back on to has two very large CIDP, so I know they do well in my area.  I've seen photos of CIDP's growing in ditches near water creeks and streams.  Can they handle wet feet?  I'm thinking yes.

Both of these palms were strap leaf things last spring, they both grow very fast here.

There is one growing in brackish water along HW6 as you head to Galveston. It looks great 😆 

[idontknowhatnametuse]

23 hours ago, Fusca said:

27°F and about 10 hours below freezing.  We hit 80°F just a few days prior and a few days after.  Very similar to the freeze we had last year but damage was different.  🤨

Mine saw 28⁰F minimum and had no damage

[Fusca]

3 hours ago, idontknowhatnametuse said:

Mine saw 28⁰F minimum and had no damage

I expected minimal damage in its first winter in the ground but not complete defoliation!  I meant to protect it but I was busy wrapping Chrysalidocarpus, Hyophorbe and Wodyetia and forgot about the Acrocomia.  It should be fine going forward.

[Arecaceus]

With two L. nitida I would put in the CIDP for contrast. Maybe a bit of soil preparation to give it a good start?

[Chester B]

39 minutes ago, Arecaceus said:

With two L. nitida I would put in the CIDP for contrast. Maybe a bit of soil preparation to give it a good start?

Yes good suggestions.  And yes I will be amending with compost and expanded shale.