Butyagrus eriospatha V Butia Odorata

[Patrick Palms]

Between Butyagrus Eriospatha and Butia Odorata,, which palm can be most cold hardy? Could any survive 20f? 

[Fusca]

2 hours ago, Patrick Palms said:

Between Butyagrus Eriospatha and Butia Odorata,, which palm can be most cold hardy? Could any survive 20f? 

Absolutely either species can survive 20°F.  I've only grown odorata but eriospatha might be slightly more cold hardy.  I don't think there's much difference.  I had 3 established Butia odorata survive 20°F with zero damage in 2018 and all three survived 9°F in 2021 with varying amounts of freeze damage.

[ahosey01]

1 minute ago, Fusca said:

Absolutely either species can survive 20°F.  I've only grown odorata but eriospatha might be slightly more cold hardy.  I don't think there's much difference.  I had 3 established Butia odorata survive 20°F with zero damage in 2018 and all three survived 9°F in 2021 with varying amounts of freeze damage.

@Patrick Palms Jon has the only really nice looking Butia south of Corpus Christi so whatever he says goes.

[Chester B]

Odorata is hardier in North America.  3 winters ago in Portland, Oregon all the eriospatha got killed at 19F during a winter bomb cyclone, including one I had been growing for 3 or 4 years.  Odoratas made it and my big one had zero damage or spotting.

UK growers say eriospatha is hardier for them and that is the Butia of choice over there.

[Fusca]

3 hours ago, Patrick Palms said:

Between Butyagrus Eriospatha and Butia Odorata,, which palm can be most cold hardy? Could any survive 20f? 

I just reread your original post - if you are comparing (Butia eriospatha x Syagrus romanzoffiana) and Butia odorata, again the Butia odorata is slightly more cold hardy than the eriospatha mule hybrid.  Basically the same answer as I had before, I had 2 standard mules (Butia odorata x Syagrus romanzoffiana) under the same conditions - no damage at 20°F and total defoliation at 9°F but only 1 survived.  The hardiness of the hybrid would likely depend on the amount of Butia traits inherited.  I would protect either a small pure Butia or hybrid at 20°F during its first winter in the ground however. 

[Patrick Palms]

So if trait is more Butia, it's tougher than if main trait is mountain queen? Can you tell by the trunk 

[Fusca]

1 hour ago, Patrick Palms said:

So if trait is more Butia, it's tougher than if main trait is mountain queen? Can you tell by the trunk 

Yes, that's correct - more Butia, more cold tolerance.  If you see burgundy colored leaf bases in the hybrid it likely (not guaranteed) has more Butia traits because that trait is more common in Butia odorata than in Syagrus.  Not sure about Butia eriospatha though but I imagine it's the same.

[Patrick Palms]

So will Butyagrus Eriospatha with more Queen Traits have a Green Leaf Base?? 

[Patrick Palms]

This. Is one similar I will be getting next month. 

Not cheap £299

 

[gyuseppe]

but do you live in the Canaries? but you live on a mountain?

[Patrick Palms]

Our holiday home is in Fuerteventura in Canary Islands.. our other home is in Suffolk, England. 

[Patrick Palms]

Over two years, ago I planted three dwarf Malayan coconut palms doing very well.. Plan is to spend few months in Fuerteventura and few in Suffolk UK near family.. Just to clarify any confusion.  I want Suffolk home to look great same as in Fuerteventura.. Suffolk is much more difficult of course but getting hold of the Butyagrus Eriospatha, gives me best hope of tropical looking palm.  Yes Butia does well and chillian wine palm but very slow growing.. Regarding traits of the Butyagrus Eriospatha being either Queen or Butia is very useful. I will hopefully pick one with more Red Leaf at the base. 

For Fuerteventura, my next palm I am after is the Carpoxylon Palm.. Can get hold of a small one buy these at small size very fussy and hard to keep alive,, I am told

[Fusca]

15 hours ago, Patrick Palms said:

So will Butyagrus Eriospatha with more Queen Traits have a Green Leaf Base?? 

I'm not sure if Butia eriospatha has burgundy colored leaf bases or not.  Perhaps @Scott W has experience with Butia eriospatha and can weigh in.  I believe @Dwarf Fan mentioned some nursery here in the states did a limited study of mule palms with burgundy vs. green and the ones with burgundy reacted better to freezes.  I don't know the details but I assume that the mules they compared were odorata mules and not eriospatha mules.  There's still variation to be considered because I personally had a different experience with my two mules in San Antonio, Texas where we hit 9°F.  My larger mule had burgundy colored leaf bases and didn't survive but mine with green leaf bases survived.  But my belief is that if Suffolk stays above 20°F most years you'll be fine since neither of mine ever saw damage above that temperature.

[Dwarf Fan]

42 minutes ago, Fusca said:

I'm not sure if Butia eriospatha has burgundy colored leaf bases or not.  Perhaps @Scott W has experience with Butia eriospatha and can weigh in.  I believe @Dwarf Fan mentioned some nursery here in the states did a limited study of mule palms with burgundy vs. green and the ones with burgundy reacted better to freezes.  I don't know the details but I assume that the mules they compared were odorata mules and not eriospatha mules.  There's still variation to be considered because I personally had a different experience with my two mules in San Antonio, Texas where we hit 9°F.  My larger mule had burgundy colored leaf bases and didn't survive but mine with green leaf bases survived.  But my belief is that if Suffolk stays above 20°F most years you'll be fine since neither of mine ever saw damage above that temperature.

Thanks for tagging me Fusca, so the green versus burgundy boot theory was promoted by the video I’ll link below. Marcus and myself started discussing it and we were trying to gather any anecdotal evidence to support the theory and so far it seems that the burgundy boots do seem to be more cold Hardy. 

However, your first-hand experience goes against that theory and I recently picked up a pure green mule (pics below) and it has a very queen leaning form with delicate tropical looking relaxed fronds, I searched for a while to get it and I’m very pleased with its overall genetic appearance and it will become part of this cold hardy test as it is growing next to a small burgundy booted Mule. They both are from Florida, but from different breeders. So far all green/burgundy boots discussion has been focused on standard Mules that would be from B. odorata mothers.

I have no experience with B. eriospatha or erio mule derivatives (other than I do have a triple hybrid erio/micropadix/allagoptera mule from Patrix) and I might be getting a band size pure erio later on this season. But so far boot color discussion, as it relates to cold hardiness, has been narrowly focused solely on standard Mules (B. odorata X Queen).

My burgundy booted mule approximately 2 years old:

My new green booted mule just purchased at 15 Gal size:

[Patrick Palms]

This my Butyagrus Eriospatha being Reserved for me, so looks likes Red Boots to me 

So hopefully has the Butia Traits 

[Patrick Palms]

On 2/14/2025 at 8:01 PM, Dwarf Fan said:

Thanks for tagging me Fusca, so the green versus burgundy boot theory was promoted by the video I’ll link below. Marcus and myself started discussing it and we were trying to gather any anecdotal evidence to support the theory and so far it seems that the burgundy boots do seem to be more cold Hardy. 

However, your first-hand experience goes against that theory and I recently picked up a pure green mule (pics below) and it has a very queen leaning form with delicate tropical looking relaxed fronds, I searched for a while to get it and I’m very pleased with its overall genetic appearance and it will become part of this cold hardy test as it is growing next to a small burgundy booted Mule. They both are from Florida, but from different breeders. So far all green/burgundy boots discussion has been focused on standard Mules that would be from B. odorata mothers.

I have no experience with B. eriospatha or erio mule derivatives (other than I do have a triple hybrid erio/micropadix/allagoptera mule from Patrix) and I might be getting a band size pure erio later on this season. But so far boot color discussion, as it relates to cold hardiness, has been narrowly focused solely on standard Mules (B. odorata X Queen).

My burgundy booted mule approximately 2 years old:

My new green booted mule just purchased at 15 Gal size:

What soil have you been using for the Butyagrus Mules?  I had some fresh compost,, but now three months old, so shouldn't burn the roots.. Mixed with Horticulture cleaned pepples and quality soil,  the Butyagrus should be happy. I don't like using perlite in the ground,, as In my experience, it attracts ants nests etc.. My Butyagrus will be in a raised bed at least 6" above ground level,, surrounded by a train sleeper. Wooden surround with bottom of course.  

 

[Patrick Palms]

Currently Back Yard is being done up. New grey Porcelain Slabs and lots of planters. For my Butyagrus, trachy,  cordylines, Butia Odorata . and flowers that suite this climate in Suffolk. 

Just built new conservatory on side of house and summer house arriving soon,, so garden made for relaxation,, as I head to my retirement 

 

Butyagrus Eriospatha going where yellow container is

 

[Patrick Palms]

My Dwarf Malayan Golden Coconut palms in Fuerteventura 

 

[Dwarf Fan]

 

7 hours ago, Patrick Palms said:

What soil have you been using for the Butyagrus Mules?  I had some fresh compost,, but now three months old, so shouldn't burn the roots.. Mixed with Horticulture cleaned pepples and quality soil,  the Butyagrus should be happy. I don't like using perlite in the ground,, as In my experience, it attracts ants nests etc.. My Butyagrus will be in a raised bed at least 6" above ground level,, surrounded by a train sleeper. Wooden surround with bottom of course.  

 

The same I use for all my Mules it could have better drainage in the winter, but during our hot dry summer the organic soil I use has native clay-based Texas soil and is mixed with about half ground up tree bark which provides just enough level of drainage to our very heavy clay topsoil.

If I lived somewhere with a more mild climate I would probably amend the soil for better aeration and faster growth, but the slow draining water retaining nature of Texas soil helps keep palms from drying out during the extreme heat of Texas summers. God put all that slow draining clay in our soil for a reason! 😉

[Dwarf Fan]

For fertilizer I also only use one single organic product, 3-4 times per year. I try to do gardening simple and naturally. I have several different Mule hybrids as well as a Super Mule and all are equally happy and growing vigorously with just organic soil and organic palm fertilizer.

[Arecaceus]

B. odorata, B. eriospatha and B. yatay seem smilarly cold hardy. At least from what I've seen, heard and read about growing them in our wet winter climates.

[Patrick Palms]

My Butyagrus Eriospatha finally planted 

And my Butia Odorata waiting to be planted