Coconut alternatives in humid zone 9a

[Iacób]

I've been wondering what are the best alternatives to coconut palms in zone 9a in places like central louisiana or northern florida? Which palms are pinnately leaved and have thin trunks that get 40 or more feet tall?

[Las Palmas Norte]

Discussing Palm Trees Worldwide forum here is full of info on such topics from gardeners in these locations.

[Iacób]

Sorry for the late reply. I didn't know where to post this since this is a question about cold hardiness, but I wasn't sure if zone 9 was cold enough for this forum. Maybe I should try reposting this thread in the Discussing Palms Worldwide forum.

[Iacób]

I've been wondering what are the best alternatives to coconut palms in zone 9a in places like central louisiana or northern florida? Which palms are pinnately leaved and have thin trunks that get 40 or more feet tall?

[happypalms]

  On 3/23/2025 at 8:40 PM, Iacób said:

I've been wondering what are the best alternatives to coconut palms in zone 9a in places like central louisiana or northern florida? Which palms are pinnately leaved and have thin trunks that get 40 or more feet tall?

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Beccariophoenix!

[MarkC]

There’s nothing that I know of that checks all your boxes. I would consider mule palms, queens and Everglades palms in those areas to give the impression of topicality. 
 

 

[MobileBayGarden]

  On 3/23/2025 at 10:01 PM, MarkC said:

There’s nothing that I know of that checks all your boxes. I would consider mule palms, queens and Everglades palms in those areas to give the impression of topicality. 
 

 

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I second that! Mules are your best choice. Queens are pushing it unless it's a microclimate and even then the tolerance between individuals is all over the place. In New Orleans we had queens in the same yard that were completely defoliated a few feet from another that barely had tip burn. If you do want to try it then I would go with the Santa Catarina variety. They have a more robust look that I prefer and mine did great with the cold/snow even though they are still young.  

Philippe

[Iacób]

Thanks for all the replies!

[MarkC]

  On 3/23/2025 at 11:40 PM, MobileBayGarden said:

I second that! Mules are your best choice. Queens are pushing it unless it's a microclimate and even then the tolerance between individuals is all over the place. In New Orleans we had queens in the same yard that were completely defoliated a few feet from another that barely had tip burn. If you do want to try it then I would go with the Santa Catarina variety. They have a more robust look that I prefer and mine did great with the cold/snow even though they are still young.  

Philippe

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Queens look horrible in nearly every location in SW and SFL. Central Florida is very hit or miss with queens, but mostly miss. North Florida and the GA coast have beautiful looking Queens. I think they may be worth a try, barring the events of the 1980’s, I think they can have a good run. 
 

I would plant anything but Sabals(unless you can get a Lisa) and Washingtonia and mix things up. Chinese fan palms can look absolutely amazing as well as ribbon palms. I’ve seen large, healthy specimens as far north as Hilton Head. 

[Chester B]

There is no alternative for zone 9a. You’re going to be very limited for any type of feather palm in general  I’m in 9B and the closest thing I would say is a Phoneix dactylifera which isn’t all that close. Mules have thicker trunks.  

  On 3/24/2025 at 12:52 AM, MarkC said:

I would plant anything but Sabals(u

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I totally disagree. The large Sabals are such amazing and impactful palms in the garden. Think causiarum or uresana. And hardy on top of that. 

[idontknowhatnametuse]

Parajubaea

[MobileBayGarden]

  On 3/24/2025 at 4:13 AM, Chester B said:

There is no alternative for zone 9a. You’re going to be very limited for any type of feather palm in general  I’m in 9B and the closest thing I would say is a Phoneix dactylifera which isn’t all that close. Mules have thicker trunks.  

I totally disagree. The large Sabals are such amazing and impactful palms in the garden. Think causiarum or uresana. And hardy on top of that. 

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100% agree, some things might work in 9a for a couple of years but is it worth the time and money if it's eventually doomed.
Sabal palmetto should be growing like weeds in those areas mentioned, but there is such variation and beauty is other Sabals available.  Just slow as dirt. 

[MobileBayGarden]

  On 3/24/2025 at 4:22 AM, idontknowhatnametuse said:

Parajubaea

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That is a great question? I have a few Parajubaea hybrids, but can straight Parajubaea survive hot humid wet summers? If so which variety would be best?

[idontknowhatnametuse]

  On 3/24/2025 at 8:12 AM, MobileBayGarden said:

That is a great question? I have a few Parajubaea hybrids, but can straight Parajubaea survive hot humid wet summers? If so which variety would be best?

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Maybe cocoides but it would need to have protection at least from the heat and be grown in a shady spot

[MarkC]

  On 3/24/2025 at 4:13 AM, Chester B said:

There is no alternative for zone 9a. You’re going to be very limited for any type of feather palm in general  I’m in 9B and the closest thing I would say is a Phoneix dactylifera which isn’t all that close. Mules have thicker trunks.  

I totally disagree. The large Sabals are such amazing and impactful palms in the garden. Think causiarum or uresana. And hardy on top of that. 

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Sabals are everywhere, they are literal weeds, I can’t imagine anyone in a FL 9a wanting to add Sabals to a landscape already littered with Sabals. Not to mention their growth rate is nothing to write home about. I would only make an exception with the Lisa’s. 
 

I think the OP is hoping for a more exotic looking landscape. To get what he wants he will need several varieties of palms to check those boxes off. 

[SeanK]

  On 3/24/2025 at 1:58 PM, MarkC said:

Sabals are everywhere, they are literal weeds, I can’t imagine anyone in a FL 9a wanting to add Sabals to a landscape already littered with Sabals. Not to mention their growth rate is nothing to write home about. I would only make an exception with the Lisa’s. 
 

I think the OP is hoping for a more exotic looking landscape. To get what he wants he will need several varieties of palms to check those boxes off. 

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A "Lisa" is only of interest to a collector. As a landscape subject, they're ugly.

[MarkC]

  On 3/24/2025 at 2:46 PM, SeanK said:

A "Lisa" is only of interest to a collector. As a landscape subject, they're ugly.

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The ones I have seen in Fort Myers and around Miami look very exotic. But obviously they will have the same growth rates as their non-mutant brethren. I don’t find them ugly, but that’s subjective I suppose. Either way, they aren’t practical for what the OP is trying to accomplish. 
 

I think it might be more practical to know how to achieve a tropical looking garden in a Florida 9a within the limitations of the zone. I don’t think it’s prudent for most people to push their zonal boundary too far. 

[Chester B]

  On 3/24/2025 at 8:12 AM, MobileBayGarden said:

That is a great question? I have a few Parajubaea hybrids, but can straight Parajubaea survive hot humid wet summers? If so which variety would be best?

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From what I have read from people on here, it seems that straight Parajubaea don't like that climate.  Pretty sure they need drier conditions and a bit of a cool down at night.

However I have two Butia x Parajubaea sunkha hybrids that are supposed to be more humidity tolerant.  I have them in pots and they are doing well, but once in the ground I'm not sure how hardy they ultimately will be.  They both do not look the same which is interesting.

[MobileBayGarden]

  On 3/24/2025 at 7:28 PM, Chester B said:

From what I have read from people on here, it seems that straight Parajubaea don't like that climate.  Pretty sure they need drier conditions and a bit of a cool down at night.

However I have two Butia x Parajubaea sunkha hybrids that are supposed to be more humidity tolerant.  I have them in pots and they are doing well, but once in the ground I'm not sure how hardy they ultimately will be.  They both do not look the same which is interesting.

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Can you share a pic of them? Would love to see that cross.

[JLM]

  On 3/24/2025 at 1:58 PM, MarkC said:

Sabals are everywhere, they are literal weeds, I can’t imagine anyone in a FL 9a wanting to add Sabals to a landscape already littered with Sabals. Not to mention their growth rate is nothing to write home about. I would only make an exception with the Lisa’s. 
 

I think the OP is hoping for a more exotic looking landscape. To get what he wants he will need several varieties of palms to check those boxes off. 

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As someone who lives in FL 9a I find it pleasing when a palmetto pops up, which has only ever happened once in the past 6 or 7 years. I think for my community specifically, there needs to be more palmettos. It feels way too much like central Alabama around here. All the new gas stations thats come in have planted sabals, we are off to a good start!

[MarkC]

  On 3/25/2025 at 3:01 AM, JLM said:

As someone who lives in FL 9a I find it pleasing when a palmetto pops up, which has only ever happened once in the past 6 or 7 years. I think for my community specifically, there needs to be more palmettos. It feels way too much like central Alabama around here. All the new gas stations thats come in have planted sabals, we are off to a good start!

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I’m of the mindset that the landscape should reflect the variety of plants that can grow there(comfortably). Sabal’s will always be ubiquitous in FL, I’d rather see more “interesting” palms. 

[JLM]

  On 3/25/2025 at 4:06 AM, MarkC said:

I’m of the mindset that the landscape should reflect the variety of plants that can grow there(comfortably). Sabal’s will always be ubiquitous in FL, I’d rather see more “interesting” palms. 

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I agree in that more interesting palms should be added. I think in addition to adding more sabals. Unfortunately builders would rather plant maples, oaks, and river birches than palms here. But further south in the county closer to the coast, Sabals are planted more widely. I have 2 Sabals in my yard that I’ve grown from seed and find it to be a privilege to have them in my possession. We are lucky the washies and Phoenix are all mostly coming back after we hit 12F up here in January with snow. We don’t get to have the big pretty palms like queens long term here without protection. P. canariensis could work, and I think mules would be a good thing to see planted widely here, but they will certainly get knocked back every few years or so.
 

PS. Whoever bought the king palms from the local Lowe’s is in for a very rude surprise when the first frost comes in November lol

[MobileBayGarden]

  On 3/25/2025 at 4:39 AM, JLM said:

I agree in that more interesting palms should be added. I think in addition to adding more sabals. Unfortunately builders would rather plant maples, oaks, and river birches than palms here. But further south in the county closer to the coast, Sabals are planted more widely. I have 2 Sabals in my yard that I’ve grown from seed and find it to be a privilege to have them in my possession. We are lucky the washies and Phoenix are all mostly coming back after we hit 12F up here in January with snow. We don’t get to have the big pretty palms like queens long term here without protection. P. canariensis could work, and I think mules would be a good thing to see planted widely here, but they will certainly get knocked back every few years or so.
 

PS. Whoever bought the king palms from the local Lowe’s is in for a very rude surprise when the first frost comes in November lol

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Very true man! I say plant what you love but grow what works for your climate unless you just love to spend money. Inland Santa Rosa county is a different beast than going down to Navarre. If you are looking for some interesting additions that would work for Pace let me know. Also, Lowe's has no clue. Lol

[Chester B]

  On 3/24/2025 at 9:32 PM, MobileBayGarden said:

Can you share a pic of them? Would love to see that cross.

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When I got them they were Butia x PJB Sunkha.  I have since learned Butia paraguayensis was the likely Butia used, which I wasn't thrilled to hear.  I want these palms as big as possible.

These are grown in full sun and were repotted last year.  I think I'll need to move them up again, as I am not looking to plant them until they are larger.

The smaller green one is 26"H x 46"W

The more upright bluish one is 44" H x 40" W

[MarkC]

  On 3/25/2025 at 4:39 AM, JLM said:

I agree in that more interesting palms should be added. I think in addition to adding more sabals. Unfortunately builders would rather plant maples, oaks, and river birches than palms here. But further south in the county closer to the coast, Sabals are planted more widely. I have 2 Sabals in my yard that I’ve grown from seed and find it to be a privilege to have them in my possession. We are lucky the washies and Phoenix are all mostly coming back after we hit 12F up here in January with snow. We don’t get to have the big pretty palms like queens long term here without protection. P. canariensis could work, and I think mules would be a good thing to see planted widely here, but they will certainly get knocked back every few years or so.
 

PS. Whoever bought the king palms from the local Lowe’s is in for a very rude surprise when the first frost comes in November lol

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Sabal palmetto in reality it’s the consummate palm for much of the southeast and Deep South. When those Hellish winter days come and go, the Sabals reign supreme. I suppose in 9a the Sabals are a hedge against a barren landscape(Texas is a good example).

Unfortunately there’s just so many obstacles throughout Florida that give many people trepidation in expanding their Palm gardens(freak cold events, lightning, fusarium, weevils). Sabals definitely have the ability to persevere. 

 

[MobileBayGarden]

  On 3/25/2025 at 3:47 PM, MarkC said:

Sabal palmetto in reality it’s the consummate palm for much of the southeast and Deep South. When those Hellish winter days come and go, the Sabals reign supreme. I suppose in 9a the Sabals are a hedge against a barren landscape(Texas is a good example).

Unfortunately there’s just so many obstacles throughout Florida that give many people trepidation in expanding their Palm gardens(freak cold events, lightning, fusarium, weevils). Sabals definitely have the ability to persevere. 

 

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Amen

[MobileBayGarden]

  On 3/25/2025 at 2:46 PM, Chester B said:

When I got them they were Butia x PJB Sunkha.  I have since learned Butia paraguayensis was the likely Butia used, which I wasn't thrilled to hear.  I want these palms as big as possible.

These are grown in full sun and were repotted last year.  I think I'll need to move them up again, as I am not looking to plant them until they are larger.

The smaller green one is 26"H x 46"W

The more upright bluish one is 44" H x 40" W

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Beautiful! I'm excited to see if they present a more Parajubaea upright look or if the Butia is more dominant. 
 

This is a baby B x PJT that I'm hoping keeps this form. It is really starting to get a blue hue I love as well. 
 

 

 

It's hard to see in the pic but it's almost like a silvery scale that's forming over the new leaves only on one side that reflects blueish tint. 

[Fusca]

  On 3/24/2025 at 8:12 AM, MobileBayGarden said:

That is a great question? I have a few Parajubaea hybrids, but can straight Parajubaea survive hot humid wet summers? If so which variety would be best?

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Parajubaea sunkha is the most humidity tolerant of the three species.  They can handle high heat without a significant cool down only if it stays dry.  I grew one in San Antonio that survived 9°F protected in 2021 Palmageddon just to see it die the following May during an unusually rainy week.  🤨  It never grew during the summer until October's cool down triggered some growth through winter.

[sonoranfans]

9a sure rules out most cocos substitutes and humid 9a make it a bit worse I think(stays cold longer).  You might not enjoy a palm that sees 20 degrees and gets a lot of damage.  When we talk cold tolerance we are talking death.  something short of death often means a couple years till the palm recovers if at all.  Mule palms are just about the best 9a pinnate palms.  They are nice looking but, not a cocos.  If you plant in groups or near a heated dwelling, palms will get better cold protection, the one out in the open by itself will be tested.  Ten to twelve years ago I heard talk of florida parajubaea sunka plantings here on palmtalk.  Anyone know of any that have matured?

[MobileBayGarden]

  On 3/25/2025 at 5:22 PM, Fusca said:

Parajubaea sunkha is the most humidity tolerant of the three species.  They can handle high heat without a significant cool down only if it stays dry.  I grew one in San Antonio that survived 9°F protected in 2021 Palmageddon just to see it die the following May during an unusually rainy week.  🤨  It never grew during the summer until October's cool down triggered some growth through winter.

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Well dang, that breaks my heart. Cold wouldn't be an issue here, but unfortunately as far as PJ, I live in the 2 most rainiest cities by volume in the continental US. I think our average is around 67".

[Palmerr]

  On 3/23/2025 at 4:42 PM, Iacób said:

I've been wondering what are the best alternatives to coconut palms in zone 9a in places like central louisiana or northern florida? Which palms are pinnately leaved and have thin trunks that get 40 or more feet tall?

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Majesty? You can fine em everywhere it could do well could not who knows prob around 22$ at any place like Lowe’s indoor garden center. Give it a try! Might not survive though!

[Tropicdoc]

  On 3/25/2025 at 5:41 PM, MobileBayGarden said:

Well dang, that breaks my heart. Cold wouldn't be an issue here, but unfortunately as far as PJ, I live in the 2 most rainiest cities by volume in the continental US. I think our average is around 67".

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Bp x pjc 

recovering quickly from record snowfall. 

 

I asked myself several years ago this exact question. What palm looks like a coconut to give my pool area a vacay vibe. 
beccariophoenix are still alive but they ALWAYS look like hell.

 

[Tropicdoc]

Bj x q not too shabby either

[Tropicdoc]

Same palm on the left 1 year ago

 

[Tom in Tucson]

  On 3/30/2025 at 1:58 PM, Tropicdoc said:

Same palm on the left 1 year ago

 

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My Bp X Pc is tough. It withstands AZ sun, and 9b cold without any damage. Yours looks great. Thanks for adding your girls bike for scale. I don't know if Patrick, or anyone else is selling it now. Mine was from Patrick in '15. I think 9a would be OK.