Frizzle Top?

[spockvr6]

Guys-

I noticed the highest leaves on one of my Queen palms has some browned looking leaflets.  Is this the initial stages of frizzle top?

[deezpalms]

Don't worry Larry, that's no frizzle top. It's probably just from some hot dry winds? You'll see frizzle top on the newest growth and it would look more like this

[Coloradoboi]

Eh... It doesn't look like frizzle top to me.  Generally Frizzle top is first visible on a new spear / frond.  

Looks more like a nutrient deficiency, or a lack of water.

[freakypalmguy]

I know that when I wake up in the morning I have it, but what causes it in palms?

Matt

[PalmGuyWC]

Matt,

Pop 50mg of Viagra, 2 asprin, a cup of your favorite coffee.....a walk around the drive way a couple of times and you'll be ok. Oh, and comb your hair and brush your teeth. For the palm, 5 lbs of Epson Salts.

Dick

[Exotic Life]

A question about this ...

If this was dry damage, because dry winds and hot tempeture's ... are queens having this fast? If you don't won't too get this, must then i give them a lot of water?

Because my queen in the ground, survived the last winter succesfull, but in the very hot april (Almost every day above the 25-30C/77-86F) and also a lot of dry winds the green leaves are changing to thiss...

I was thinking that frost damage has been very strange because i've got almost no frost last winter.

Robbin

[freakypalmguy]

(PalmGuyWC @ Dec. 10 2007,20:39)

QUOTE

Matt,

Pop 50mg of Viagra, 2 asprin, a cup of your favorite coffee.....a walk around the drive way a couple of times and you'll be ok. Oh, and comb your hair and brush your teeth. For the palm, 5 lbs of Epson Salts.

Dick

:laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:

So I guess that means it is not fatal to Syagrus if treated?

Matt

[PalmGuyWC]

Actually....I was reading that some scientiest in Sweden were using Viagra as a plant growth hormone. I don't remember the results but I think the plants grew faster, or rooted faster. I don't think that was what the drug was designed for. It was actually designed to treat poor circulation to the heart.

There was a study group of old codgers, and at the end of the study, there was no significant improvement to the heart ailments, but they came back wanting some more of the stuff because it significantly improved circulation in other areas.

Check me out and I think you will find this is mostly factual, but I've forgoten the details. BTW, 5lbs of epson salts spread around your palm will still help frizzle top.

Dick

Dick

[Davidl]

My guess is it needs to be fertilized and needs minors especially manganese but not just that.It looks like what I always thought was frizzle top. It might take several times fertilizing for the palm to look better and sometimes they die because its to late. This of course is typical here in Fl. Good luck

[spockvr6]

Guys-

Thanks for the replies.

This palm has seen lots of fert and water.  But, maybe its still not enough for this particular palm (as none of the others in the yard have the same problem).  The problem now is just barely noticable on the ends of the tallest leaves of this palm.  All the other leaves look OK.

So, Ill try loading this thing up with some more fertilizer (the stuff I just started using is the Univ of Florida blend 8-4-12 with all the minors) and well see what happens.

[FRITO]

Larry, is the queen out by your street?  the one you show growth pictures of?

that queen looked great and was definently "juiced"

epsom salts helped my queen  which exibited this withering away of the palm tips.

~

[redant]

Larry & lack of water can not be used in the same sentence.  :laugh:

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

For the palm, 5 lbs of Epson Salts

My guess is it needs to be fertilized and needs minors especially manganese

Larry, your pic does not depict frizzle top, but rather drying out or some other nutrient deficiency.  Dave's picture is what frizzle top looks like.  Also remember that frizzle top is a deficiency in MANGANESE.  Not to be confused with magnesium, which is epsom salts.

Frizzle top shows up in the newest frond because manganese is not translocatable in the palm.  As soon as it is depleted in the soil, the deficiency shows in the new growth.  Magnesium, on the other hand, is translocatable in the palm and deficiencies show up in the oldest fronds first, as the palms pull the mag out of them and translocates it to the new frond or spear.  Mag deficiency shows as a yellowed "V" formation on the frond or leaf, with the outer parts the yellowest and the part by the midvein (rachis) green.

Geraldo

[spockvr6]

(FRITO @ Dec. 11 2007,20:39)

QUOTE

Larry, is the queen out by your street?  the one you show growth pictures of?

that queen looked great and was definently "juiced"

epsom salts helped my queen  which exibited this withering away of the palm tips.

~

Frito-

This is a different Queen, but one that is also "juiced".  I planted it 3 years ago from a 3 gallon and its got to be 25-30 ft tall now.

[spockvr6]

(redant @ Dec. 12 2007,10:16)

QUOTE

Larry & lack of water can not be used in the same sentence.  :laugh:

My average has been about 60,000 gallons a month

[spockvr6]

(Jerry@TreeZoo @ Dec. 12 2007,12:32)

QUOTE

For the palm, 5 lbs of Epson Salts

My guess is it needs to be fertilized and needs minors especially manganese

Larry, your pic does not depict frizzle top, but rather drying out or some other nutrient deficiency.  Dave's picture is what frizzle top looks like.  Also remember that frizzle top is a deficiency in MANGANESE.  Not to be confused with magnesium, which is epsom salts.

Frizzle top shows up in the newest frond because manganese is not translocatable in the palm.  As soon as it is depleted in the soil, the deficiency shows in the new growth.  Magnesium, on the other hand, is translocatable in the palm and deficiencies show up in the oldest fronds first, as the palms pull the mag out of them and translocates it to the new frond or spear.  Mag deficiency shows as a yellowed "V" formation on the frond or leaf, with the outer parts the yellowest and the part by the midvein (rachis) green.

Geraldo

This palm is sometimes sujected to alot of wind, so perhaps this browning on the newest leaftips is from nothing bu the wind.

Byt, Ive applied some extra fert to it and will see what happens.

[Davidl]

Yes Jerry is right. I was looking at the first two sets of pics and thinking it was the same palm.I guess I was in a hurry when I wrote that. Your palm does look more like its dried out. I have seen this in places where the soil is really bad and you can water and it never seems to help.By the way frizzle top does not start out looking like Daves pic it starts on the newest fronds and ends up like Daves pic. So if your pic is of the newest fronds I still would not totally rule it out.

[FRITO]

(spockvr6 @ Dec. 12 2007,12:57)

QUOTE

(redant @ Dec. 12 2007,10:16)

QUOTE

Larry & lack of water can not be used in the same sentence.  :laugh:

My average has been about 60,000 gallons a month

WOOOOW!

I use on average 25-30 gallons according to my monthly bill.  I believe my water counter meter thing is broken. I think my toilet alone per flush is atleast 2 gallons.  I guess i should irrigate more and tke advantage huh?

[PalmGuyWC]

Larry,

Something else to keep in mind, every now and then you will run across a palm that is genetically inferior, and no matter what you do its apperance won't imporve.

I've had two such palms, one a Butiagrus and the other a Butia. I had planted 4 Butiagrus and the one in the most visable location, and the fastest growing, would develop ugly black spots on the fronds when the temps. dropped below 45F. Just at the end of summer, it would have a nice green crown, then the black spots would appear with cold weather, while the others looked fine. It broke my heart to chop a Butiagrus down with about 4 feet of woody trunk, but it was an eye sore more often than not. There is a nice tall Butia growing in its spot now.

I had a very robust Butia that grew nicely, and had huge fruit, but the lower 50% of the fronds would brown tip on the lower 1/3rd of the fronds. No matter what I tried, micro-nutrients, fertilizer, more water, and it still brown tipped. So again, I hated to chain saw a nice woody trunk, but out it came. I haven't replanted that spot, but I think one of Patrick Schafer's hybrids is going there. The palm has been gone for about 4 years, and now there are dozens of seedlings coming up where the palm grew. I think I will pot some up and see what develops. Butias are not really as slow as some people think. Put a nice 5 gal. in the ground and it may be fruiting size in 5 years.

Dick